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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:00 am 
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Mets record during his tenure

651 - 705

Only two winning seasons
A depleted and weak farm system
Aging offensive players that are injured often and not contributing for the most part

Yes, a fair amount of blame goes to players who just underachieve for whatever reason, but when it happens as often as it does like this, then the upper level people are the real ones responsible.

I want him gone

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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:08 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
I liked both the Ramos trade (as I thought it showed foresight, and thought maybe it was a precursor to a Familia move) and the Vargas move, as I thought you were paying a premium for stability, but its not my money so who cares.

I did want Reed over Swarzak, and thats like a wash at this point.

The lesson: I'd be as bad of a GM as Sandy.


The issue with Ramos is that he's always had a pretty high WHIP for a closer. IMHO that's a clear indicator that he was more lucky than good. Also, I thought Ramos had a decent fastball when he was with the Marlins. Either I'm thinking of someone else (which is possible) or the dude was damaged goods that the Marlins unloaded on us.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:09 am 
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I have been all over the missteps of the last winter. It is a particularly brutal record. Even if you accept that every team has its hits and misses in FA, the most egregious mistakes of the winter are still:

1) tendering Matt Harvey at $5.6M - and I strangely swam against the tide on this one.

2) tendering AJ Ramos at $9.2M !! - I was more surprised the Mets did this. An obvious overpay even if Ramos were 'only' as bad as he was last season. I thought they would n/t and maybe try to bring him back at a lower rate.

3) Signing Jay Bruce - it's not so much that the $ was thought of as a bad deal; it's that this signing effectively pushed Nimmo to the bench. It means they actually didn't have any idea what they had in Nimmo... that had the projected starting OF not gotten injured, Nimmo's breakout never would have happened. in fact, Nimmo might still be in Vegas or on the shuttle. This is inexcusable.

4) Vargas - not much I can add that hasn't already been said. I thought it was a crazy deal at the time and not warranted by his 2nd half performance and age.

That's a combined $36M for 2018 (assuming an even amortization of Bruce's deal even tho in reality it's backloaded). That's a lot of $ for a team that allegedly has limited resources.

I can't get on them too much for Swarzak or Frazier. These two made some sense. But a GM not mired in 80s/90s fascination with the longball and who values athleticism more would have signed Dyson or even Jon Jay instead of Bruce as the OF insurance. Even Rajai Davis was a better fit. After that, they still would have had $30M to use for a real talent infusion... and even then they were afraid to lose the 2nd rd pick by signing any QO FAs (Arrieta, Mous, Cain). The whole thing was inexcusable and everyone said it at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:11 am 
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piazzafan wrote:

The issue with Ramos is that he's always had a pretty high WHIP for a closer. IMHO that's a clear indicator that he was more lucky than good. Also, I thought Ramos had a decent fastball when he was with the Marlins. Either I'm thinking of someone else (which is possible) or the dude was damaged goods that the Marlins unloaded on us.


Well, its really an indicator that he's not suited for a sort of fireman, multi-inning, get deployed in high leverage situations mid-inning type of role.

He had a long track record of success despite the obvious issue with baserunners so I'm not sure he would've been as ineffective had he been deployed more consistent with that 1-clean-inning type of role, but he was bad, no doubt about it, and that was a misfire.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:12 am 
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In the interest of fairness and not over-sensationalizing, the article is an indictment of Sandy's offseason not his tenure.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:14 am 
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Regarding Sandy using analytics for the draft. Analytics don't work because these kids use aluminum bats and that skews their stats. When drafting you need to use a scouts eye because good stats mean nothing when projecting high school and college hitters. If anything it might be wiser to draft pitchers with good stats with the thinking that these kids would be able to fair better going against wooden bats but they don't seem to really do that. A lot of the pitchers they draft have god awful stats and have gotten clobbered in college.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:32 am 
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I had no problem signing Frazier. In fact I think I might have mentioned for what you paid Bruce, you could've had Frazier (before he signed) and Addison Reed. Swarzak was a need sign.

Funny thing...with JUST those two signings, the Mets are probably slightly better this year, rather than having had Bruce's slumping bat, or Vargas' paper arm, or the silliness that was Gonzalez 50 games. At least Reyes is cheap.

Nobody anticipated Nimmo's rise. That's for sure. However, those are the bonuses you get when you allow players the opportunity to grow and produce, rather than burying them behind "value contract" vets.


I certainly would not make a good GM. Doesn't mean there aren't great ideas on these boards that made more sense.

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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:39 am 
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The perfect Sandy conundrum was illustrated by the fact he valued Nimmo highly enough to not deal him for Harrison or McCutchen on the one hand while on the other blocking any non injury route to playing time for him in the next three years by bringing Bruce back.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:43 am 
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AllWrightNow wrote:
The perfect Sandy conundrum was illustrated by the fact he valued Nimmo highly enough to not deal him for Harrison or McCutchen on the one hand while on the other blocking any non injury route to playing time for him in the next three years by bringing Bruce back.

Yeah about the best thing to be said of SA is that he didn't deal Nimmo and have him exploded elsewhere, and didn't sign Alex Cobb. High praise indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:54 am 
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Sandy has made some bad decisions. But, again, who hired him? And who is responsible for the underlying structural issues that are holding the team back just as much as the GM?


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:09 pm 
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yalikeMetroplitans wrote:
Sandy has made some bad decisions. But, again, who hired him? And who is responsible for the underlying structural issues that are holding the team back just as much as the GM?

This discussion is about the GM tho.


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 Post subject: Re: The Indictment of Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 pm 
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yalikeMetroplitans wrote:
Sandy has made some bad decisions. But, again, who hired him? And who is responsible for the underlying structural issues that are holding the team back just as much as the GM?
Well, they still love him though.


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