MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1308 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 109  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 am 
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 14131
Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
jdawginsc wrote:
R Nitelight wrote:
Cano is a sunk cost. He can't be anything but an afterthought in your decision making.


8)


I agree. The Wilpons do not.

Between Crspedes, Lowrie and Cano, you have 3 immovable pieces costing $65m next year. All sunk costs, but all prohibitive of tearing down completely.

Add Jakes $35 and you are at $100m.

Cano factors in.


Cespedes & Lowrie could be movable at the deadline next year if both are healthy in 2020.

It's a salary cluserflock, but we also have lots of talent on this team, especially if Rosario figures things out and maybe Nimmo comes back to hit leadoff. I'm honestly rooting for a bit of good luck and a nice season next year, but if it doesn't work . . . they can sell again.

Nimmo
Alonso
McNeil
Cespedes
Conforto

Cano / Lowrie / Rosario / Dom

Is a fun lineup.

_________________
Nothing is Written. (few know this, but T.E. Lawrence was talking about the 2020 Mets when he said that).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:05 am 
User avatar
Offline
All Star

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 2320
R Nitelight wrote:
Cano is a sunk cost. He can't be anything but an afterthought in your decision making.


8)


He's not in the decison making. Its the giving up of two top 100 prospects that should be in the decison making process. You can't move your top prospects for a ML key piece in year one and then trade a different ML key piece in year two for prospects

That doesn't get you anywhere.

_________________
“Why... must I always explain” Van Morrison


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:19 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 29730
Location: NYC
MookieWouldaBeatIt wrote:
R Nitelight wrote:
Cano is a sunk cost. He can't be anything but an afterthought in your decision making.


8)


He's not in the decison making. Its the giving up of two top 100 prospects that should be in the decison making process. You can't move your top prospects for a ML key piece in year one and then trade a different ML key piece in year two for prospects

That doesn't get you anywhere.

Why? They tried something. It didn’t work. Doubling down on a strategy that hasn’t worked is what would be foolish. The right thing to do is acknowledge the fact that a course correction is needed. Fortunately having young controllable stars plus an ace who’s going to be here for the long term should make this re-boot go pretty quickly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:01 am 
User avatar
Offline
All Star

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 2320
I'm all for a re-boot Trade Thor for 2020 major league ready talent. I'd even prefer to resign Wheeler Trade Dom and whatever for a true CF Grab some pen arms and go back to trying for 2020

Its the dump Thor for some prospects / shop Jake / tear it down and wait for this years draft class to get here crap that I can't stand

_________________
“Why... must I always explain” Van Morrison


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:42 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63215
MookieWouldaBeatIt wrote:
I'm all for a re-boot Trade Thor for 2020 major league ready talent. I'd even prefer to resign Wheeler Trade Dom and whatever for a true CF Grab some pen arms and go back to trying for 2020

Its the dump Thor for some prospects / shop Jake / tear it down and wait for this years draft class to get here crap that I can't stand


These 2 scenarios don't exist in the real world.

If you trade Thor for 2020 talent, its lesser, extraneous talent. If you trade your studs and don't prioritize "close to ready" its likely you get higher upside, higher variable talent that could truly breakthrough. Sort of like a Jarred Kelenic type (whoops).

Contenders don't make deadline deals to throw away guys who can help them now (or after, basically, another months' worth of AAA time). Chris Archer trade is an anomaly, not a rule. And we certainly ain't the Rays in terms of player development.

So its nice that you want to trade our chips for guys who will be better than those who we deal away by next year. That is, however, unlikely. If your main goal is gathering 2020 ready guys, be ready for 2017 redux. Or maybe we can even get a nice ready starting pitching "prospect" like Walker Lockett.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:50 pm 
User avatar
Offline
All Star

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 2320
So you're equating the return for Thor to the return for Kevin Plawecki?

_________________
“Why... must I always explain” Van Morrison


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:13 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Franchise Player

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm
Posts: 3212
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
MookieWouldaBeatIt wrote:
I'm all for a re-boot Trade Thor for 2020 major league ready talent. I'd even prefer to resign Wheeler Trade Dom and whatever for a true CF Grab some pen arms and go back to trying for 2020

Its the dump Thor for some prospects / shop Jake / tear it down and wait for this years draft class to get here crap that I can't stand


These 2 scenarios don't exist in the real world.

If you trade Thor for 2020 talent, its lesser, extraneous talent. If you trade your studs and don't prioritize "close to ready" its likely you get higher upside, higher variable talent that could truly breakthrough. Sort of like a Jarred Kelenic type (whoops).

Contenders don't make deadline deals to throw away guys who can help them now (or after, basically, another months' worth of AAA time). Chris Archer trade is an anomaly, not a rule. And we certainly ain't the Rays in terms of player development.

So its nice that you want to trade our chips for guys who will be better than those who we deal away by next year. That is, however, unlikely. If your main goal is gathering 2020 ready guys, be ready for 2017 redux. Or maybe we can even get a nice ready starting pitching "prospect" like Walker Lockett.


Bingo.

A lot of these proposals are assuming that the Mets can trade pieces like Thor or Conforto to contenders and get slightly younger stars in return.

Which is what the Pirates try to do. Which is why they have Colin Moran (who is now benched) instead of Gerrit Cole, and then decided to trade two young stars for Chris Archer when they needed a SP to compete. Great way to build a forever just outside of contention team.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Everyday Player

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 1137
Location: Studio 54
Unless they surprise us and deal Wheeler and Lugo to the Astros for a variety of known and unknown names, my sense is that we will see Wheeler go for an Addison Reed-like return, while Frazier and Vargas in reprisals of the Granderson and Walker deals. In other words, not much.

While it is fun to think about a "prospect haul" for Thor or Matz, all of MLB knows what we do: these guys haven't lived up to the hype. That fact, coupled with the fact that the Mets do need to field a team next year, leads me to believe that neither of them is going anywhere. Some contender will take them for nothing no doubt, but no one is giving up the crown jewels of their farm for these guys.

The Conforto rumors may gain steam in the offseason provided Dom proves he can hold his own in left. Conforto could yield a CF and another starter. But that's for December.

_________________
"Hope for the best, expect the Mets!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:57 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63215
MookieWouldaBeatIt wrote:
So you're equating the return for Thor to the return for Kevin Plawecki?


If your number 1 priority is getting something for 2020, sure. You're getting what teams think they can part with without hurting themselves. You'll get something like Logan Allen, (and not Mackenzie Gore because he's 3 years away probably). Woooooooooooooo.

What are you looking at for Thor that replaces Thor in 2020 to "try to contend" next year, and why would that team give that up if they can just use that person instead...?

Chris Archer trade excluded, cite to me an example of a sell-off trade that yielded guys who had major league impacts immediately? Gerritt Cole got Pittsburgh Joe Musgrave and a platoon 3B/corner bench guy. Thats your model. So we can turn Thor into an immediate Jason Vargas rotation replacement and maybe grab another JD Davis type. Sounds great. Lets do this again next year and win another 75 games and whine about bad luck and injuries.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:01 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63215
MookieWouldaBeatIt wrote:
R Nitelight wrote:
Cano is a sunk cost. He can't be anything but an afterthought in your decision making.


8)


He's not in the decison making. Its the giving up of two top 100 prospects that should be in the decison making process. You can't move your top prospects for a ML key piece in year one and then trade a different ML key piece in year two for prospects

That doesn't get you anywhere.


Yeah, this is what everyone said in the offseason when the Noah rumors were floating around.

Looking back, 2 key missed opportunities this winter clearly were trading Noah at his high point, and cashing in Nimmo or Rosario for Realmuto and avoiding Wilson Ramos. Two rumored moves that got the most pushback, really. But we'd be better off today. Freddy Galvis + JT Realmuto is like a 3 win improvement over Rosario and Ramos in half a season.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:04 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 pm
Posts: 40814
Location: Panic City
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
If your number 1 priority is getting something for 2020, sure. You're getting what teams think they can part with without hurting themselves. You'll get something like Logan Allen, (and not Mackenzie Gore because he's 3 years away probably). Woooooooooooooo.

What are you looking at for Thor that replaces Thor in 2020 to "try to contend" next year, and why would that team give that up if they can just use that person instead...?

Chris Archer trade excluded, cite to me an example of a sell-off trade that yielded guys who had major league impacts immediately? Gerritt Cole got Pittsburgh Joe Musgrave and a platoon 3B/corner bench guy. Thats your model. So we can turn Thor into an immediate Jason Vargas rotation replacement and maybe grab another JD Davis type. Sounds great. Lets do this again next year and win another 75 games and whine about bad luck and injuries.


Every team's Top 10 list is comprised of 5 guys with star potential they don't want to trade and 5 solid polished guys who are okay but who aren't ever going to be any more than they are now. What you pay your scouts the small bucks to find are the guys who are going to rise up the list in the near future but who haven't broken out yet.


8)

_________________
Whatever.

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:10 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63215
R Nitelight wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
If your number 1 priority is getting something for 2020, sure. You're getting what teams think they can part with without hurting themselves. You'll get something like Logan Allen, (and not Mackenzie Gore because he's 3 years away probably). Woooooooooooooo.

What are you looking at for Thor that replaces Thor in 2020 to "try to contend" next year, and why would that team give that up if they can just use that person instead...?

Chris Archer trade excluded, cite to me an example of a sell-off trade that yielded guys who had major league impacts immediately? Gerritt Cole got Pittsburgh Joe Musgrave and a platoon 3B/corner bench guy. Thats your model. So we can turn Thor into an immediate Jason Vargas rotation replacement and maybe grab another JD Davis type. Sounds great. Lets do this again next year and win another 75 games and whine about bad luck and injuries.


Every team's Top 10 list is comprised of 5 guys with star potential they don't want to trade and 5 solid polished guys who are okay but who aren't ever going to be any more than they are now. What you pay your scouts the small bucks to find are the guys who are going to rise up the list in the near future but who haven't broken out yet.


8)


Well, sure. Thats the point. If you're trading your stud, the highest priority shouldn't be "likeliest to be able to hold down a roster spot in 2 months." If we're trading Jason Vargas, fine. But you don't deal Noah thinking you're getting a guy or guys who'll just step into Noah's spot next year. Thats how you end up dealing Gerritt Cole for Joe Musgrave.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1308 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 109  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Asbury Mark, Daaaarryyl, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Older Than Dirt, scottydont and 183 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


FIND AN AA MEETING | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL BEST SELLERS | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GET HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | VETERAN TIPS ON CRAFT DIY RECIPES | FIND ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB LOCAL NEW OR USED BOOK STORE | KNICKS BLOG FORUM BOARDS | © Untraditional Media