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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

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LTKfRGM wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
He means that it’s a star game. If you don’t have several stars lined up then there’s no shot at winning it all. A lot of teams can make the playoffs but only a handful have a title shot. Miami making it to the finals last season was an anomaly. That normally doesn’t happen. In baseball otoh, anything can happen once a team gets into the playoffs.


That's true, Baseball has the crap-shoot aspect, but it doesn't have parity. Basketball has parity. Any team is just as likely to get a stud or two and make a serious title run.

Yes, the heat were an oddity, but also, 2020 was an odd year I think. The Raptors the year before were a well constructed team that wasn't really a favorite of free agents, but they were well put together, even without drafting a stud. That's also a little rare.

Any team can draft a stud, like leBron or Seth Curry or Tim Duncan and that means all teams in the NBA have a shot, maybe not on any given season, but over time. Baseball, that's less true. There are powerhouses in baseball like the Yanks and Dodgers that are always in the running.

Both the NBA and MLB, teams benefit from tanking and I'm not a fan of that.



You need to draft a stud. Then hope the stud stays, then sign 2-3 more very expensive stars while being in a city they want to all play in.

Cleveland was lucky LeBrion happened to be born near there. AND they didn't win with him until after he left, then came back and brought guys with him. It's a star driven league, where players can decide to gather in a city. Most seasons there are very few teams with a chance to win and it's top heavy.

Baseball has had more different teams winning over a period of years.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:55 pm 
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There is no parity in basketball. 3 teams (lakers,clippers,nets) have legit shot at winning the title...thats it.. Baseball this season i can give you 15 teams with a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:38 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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MX25 wrote:
There is no parity in basketball. 3 teams (lakers,clippers,nets) have legit shot at winning the title...thats it.. Baseball this season i can give you 15 teams with a shot.


Yeah there is way more parity in baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:01 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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MX25 wrote:
There is no parity in basketball. 3 teams (lakers,clippers,nets) have legit shot at winning the title...thats it.. Baseball this season i can give you 15 teams with a shot.


For the 2nd time, that's not the point I was making.

Prior to this year, the Nets had wining seasons 3 of the last 14 years. Their last title was when they were in the ABA. That's not a history to brag about.

The Clippers also - used to be a joke. Awful history.

The Lakers have done well with free agency and they're as close to a dynasty as the NBA has, but my point still stands. ANY TEAM can win in the NBA. Small market teams can draft well and put together a string of good seasons. Goldenstate was a small market team with a terrible record before their run with Seth Curry and 3 titles and 5 consecutive conference titles. Between 1994 and 2011 (18 years) they had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance.

Small market teams can win in the NBA and often do. Teams can offer more money to their free agents than other teams in free agency and that creates a more even playing field. Baseball hasn't worked out how to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 9524
LTKfRGM wrote:
MX25 wrote:
There is no parity in basketball. 3 teams (lakers,clippers,nets) have legit shot at winning the title...thats it.. Baseball this season i can give you 15 teams with a shot.


For the 2nd time, that's not the point I was making.

Prior to this year, the Nets had wining seasons 3 of the last 14 years. Their last title was when they were in the ABA. That's not a history to brag about.

The Clippers also - used to be a joke. Awful history.

The Lakers have done well with free agency and they're as close to a dynasty as the NBA has, but my point still stands. ANY TEAM can win in the NBA. Small market teams can draft well and put together a string of good seasons. Goldenstate was a small market team with a terrible record before their run with Seth Curry and 3 titles and 5 consecutive conference titles. Between 1994 and 2011 (18 years) they had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance.

Small market teams can win in the NBA and often do. Teams can offer more money to their free agents than other teams in free agency and that creates a more even playing field. Baseball hasn't worked out how to do that.


I'm sorry but your point isn't clear. Simply put, in baseball way more teams have a chance to win a championship in any given season. With 30 teams obviously not everyone can win and teams will go many years without winning. But different teams can win. Look at the Rays, they compete. Oakland makes the playoffs. And baseball does that with fewer post season spots than basketball or hockey.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:24 pm 
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I think the point is that in the NBA any franchise can become a contender based on the draft or the whims of FAs (who would have thought the Bucks and the Nets would be the two best teams).

But in any given year more teams in baseball have a chance to win it all.

There is more in season parity in the MLB but more year to year parity in basketball because all the stars constantly change teams.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:21 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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TomInNC wrote:

You need to draft a stud. Then hope the stud stays, then sign 2-3 more very expensive stars while being in a city they want to all play in.

Cleveland was lucky LeBrion happened to be born near there. AND they didn't win with him until after he left, then came back and brought guys with him. It's a star driven league, where players can decide to gather in a city. Most seasons there are very few teams with a chance to win and it's top heavy.

Baseball has had more different teams winning over a period of years.


Baseball has more different teams because the playoffs are a crapshoot in baseball, not because the system provides equal chances. That's something baseball does badly.

In the last 20 years in basketball, 9 small market teams have won championships. That kind of ratio doesn't happen in baseball and it's never going to happen under the current system.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:21 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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LTKfRGM wrote:
MX25 wrote:
There is no parity in basketball. 3 teams (lakers,clippers,nets) have legit shot at winning the title...thats it.. Baseball this season i can give you 15 teams with a shot.


For the 2nd time, that's not the point I was making.

Prior to this year, the Nets had wining seasons 3 of the last 14 years. Their last title was when they were in the ABA. That's not a history to brag about.

The Clippers also - used to be a joke. Awful history.

The Lakers have done well with free agency and they're as close to a dynasty as the NBA has, but my point still stands. ANY TEAM can win in the NBA. Small market teams can draft well and put together a string of good seasons. Goldenstate was a small market team with a terrible record before their run with Seth Curry and 3 titles and 5 consecutive conference titles. Between 1994 and 2011 (18 years) they had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance.

Small market teams can win in the NBA and often do. Teams can offer more money to their free agents than other teams in free agency and that creates a more even playing field. Baseball hasn't worked out how to do that.

Spending is not the only way to win in baseball. Small market teams have definitely won. So otherwise it’s not clear what point you’re trying to make.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:32 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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HeyNowHK wrote:
Spending is not the only way to win in baseball. Small market teams have definitely won. So otherwise it’s not clear what point you’re trying to make.


I can't believe that you're arguing this.

The Royals put together a good team, made the world series twice, won it once, but their run, was 3 seasons with a wining record surrounded by a string of losing seasons on both sides - BECAUSE THEY ARE A SMALL MARKET TEAM.

Meanwhile, the Yankees haven't had a losing season since 1992. Is that cause the Yankees are better run than the Royals or is it that they have more money.

Baseball's system favors teams that can spend, and yes, not every team that spends ends up good, but if you don't think having money to spend gives teams that can spend an advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

Basketball, the finances are worked out so that all 30 teams have a shot. Baseball is much less fair.

Now, the players want teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and Angels and now the Mets to hand out 250 and 300 million dollar contracts, so I don't see this changing, but I think baseball would be better if it had a system more like the NBA or NFL. More revenue sharing, higher salaries early on. I know it won't happen, but I've always been an advocate for small market teams.

Now, I love having Cohen, but I'm still going to call the system unbalanced, because it is.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:51 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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LTKfRGM wrote:
TomInNC wrote:

You need to draft a stud. Then hope the stud stays, then sign 2-3 more very expensive stars while being in a city they want to all play in.

Cleveland was lucky LeBrion happened to be born near there. AND they didn't win with him until after he left, then came back and brought guys with him. It's a star driven league, where players can decide to gather in a city. Most seasons there are very few teams with a chance to win and it's top heavy.

Baseball has had more different teams winning over a period of years.


Baseball has more different teams because the playoffs are a crapshoot in baseball, not because the system provides equal chances. That's something baseball does badly.

In the last 20 years in basketball, 9 small market teams have won championships. That kind of ratio doesn't happen in baseball and it's never going to happen under the current system.

It seems like you’re conflating parity with small market viability. But aren’t those different things? I view parity as any team (or more teams) having the ability to win it all in any given year. That certainly describes baseball more than basketball.

Can a team turn it around quicker in basketball? I don’t know. You would think that bc it takes fewer players to turn things but look at the Pads from ‘19 to ‘20, Atlanta from ‘17 to ‘18, WhiteSox from ‘19 to ‘20 and so on. Yes those teams were in rebuilds that took several years but you can have a 20 win turnaround in a year when things all come together.

I think 14 different teams have won the WS in the past 20 seasons. Only Boston, SF and StL were multiple winners in that time.

In the nba, there are only a handful of teams that can win in any year. Baseball is way more wide open.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:00 am 
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Legend of NYFS

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LTKfRGM wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Spending is not the only way to win in baseball. Small market teams have definitely won. So otherwise it’s not clear what point you’re trying to make.


I can't believe that you're arguing this.


The only thing I’m pushing back against is your claim that basketball has more parity than baseball. I don’t think you’ve made that case anywhere.

Small market teams by and large not holding on to their star players in mlb is a different discussion... maybe the one you want to have... idk.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:28 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Spending is not the only way to win in baseball. Small market teams have definitely won. So otherwise it’s not clear what point you’re trying to make.


I can't believe that you're arguing this.

The Royals put together a good team, made the world series twice, won it once, but their run, was 3 seasons with a wining record surrounded by a string of losing seasons on both sides - BECAUSE THEY ARE A SMALL MARKET TEAM.

Meanwhile, the Yankees haven't had a losing season since 1992. Is that cause the Yankees are better run than the Royals or is it that they have more money.

Baseball's system favors teams that can spend, and yes, not every team that spends ends up good, but if you don't think having money to spend gives teams that can spend an advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

Basketball, the finances are worked out so that all 30 teams have a shot. Baseball is much less fair.

Now, the players want teams like the Dodgers and Yankees and Angels and now the Mets to hand out 250 and 300 million dollar contracts, so I don't see this changing, but I think baseball would be better if it had a system more like the NBA or NFL. More revenue sharing, higher salaries early on. I know it won't happen, but I've always been an advocate for small market teams.

Now, I love having Cohen, but I'm still going to call the system unbalanced, because it is.

Care to name the top five NBA teams by spending?

Nevermind, I'll do it for you:

1. Golden State - the recent winner three titles and five consecutive appearances
2. Clippers
3. Nets
4. Lakers
5. Bucks

The Clippers, Milwaukee and New Jersey may have poor histories, but they are spending now and, well, would ya look at that? Seems spending can lead to wins just as easily in the NBA too.

Meanwhile, the Yankees didn't make a single World Series appearance the last decade. Funny that.


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