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 Post subject: Scathing article from Mike Vaccaro
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 am 
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(first let me say that I don't see what some minor trade (or what any trade is going to do to fix the numerous holes this team has but I do agree with much of Vaccaro's point that to the fans it seems like the Wilpon's really don't care all that much about what is happening. I am of the belief that this season is "over" so I am the wrong one to ask but I do think IF a move were to have been made it should have been made over a month ago, no it wouldn't have stopped Beltran from getting hurt or Maine from getting hurt but at least it would have curbed the perception of "this is a sinking ship" at this point I don't think any move which gives up a significant piece is a smart move)


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But here is the overwhelming undercurrent of this season right now: the Mets need to do something. They don't have the talent to pull off a mega-deal? Fine. But they have the cash to overrule that and to make some kind of big-boy, big-market transaction to take a bloated contract off someone's hands -- or should, assuming the windfall they reap each day from opening the gates at Citi isn't swallowed whole by whatever mess Bernie Madoff left the owners in.

That has been the dirty little secret, right? Everyone knows how badly the Wilpons were burned by Madoff. And while the Wipons have steadfastly denied that their victimhood in this scandal hasn't affected their team -- and in fairness they do have the largest payroll in the league -- their inaction the past few weeks does make you wonder.

And that, as much as anything, is what Mets fans must find distasteful, if not disgraceful. I think the denizens at Citi would be more willing to accept the bad luck that has befallen their team if it appeared the Mets cared enough to DO something. But so far, they have done nothing. They have elevated Nick Evans and Fernando Martinez and whatever other bright lights stand out from their woeful farm system. They have yet to add one piece from the outside. At this point, nobody is even clamoring for a Holliday or a Halladay. Just a holiday from the inertness and the ineptness, and some kind of fresh blood into the mix.


http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/vaccaro/ ... ck_81.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:51 am 
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I think the move had to be made last week before the Phillies series. It has now been 29 innings since a Mets position player had an RBI. THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:00 am 
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They gotta write about something.

Evan Roberts was killing the Mets yesterday for not getting Ryan Freel.

Jeebus.



8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:12 am 
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re: vac's whack
i have nothin to write about today so i will write about something that will give me something to write about....
trades big or small give writers material in the absence of any material the next step si to write about howa trade has to be made or why a trade hasnt been made...mind you no realistic opitions just i know they cant makea trade but i want them t make atrade or spend some money.

by the way i dont think a team should be run by what the owners think the fans think and i dont think you make a move to appease fans

i dont think they view this season as lost and i dont think they are sitting around doing nothing....
i think they are looking but nothin worth jumping on has come up

you dont jump just to jump

cant celebrate about winning right now cos we aint
bored with writing about losing
the injury angle has been beaten like a dead horse
the money angel just isnt there .....vac go that right by at least being honest and givng prop for how muhc they spend

sometimes things are bad and you just got to be patient
it aint fun
it aint sexy
and its kinda boring

but

losta people are gettung really close to trading for tradin sake

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:17 am 
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Ugh. Fine so let's say the Mets made a move a couple weeks ago to get Dunn.

And let's say he hit a 2-run home run in every single game.

July 7, Mets lose 8-2

July 6, no game

July 5, Tie game. Winner unknown.

July 4, Mets lose 4-3

July 3, Mets lose 7-4

July 2, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

July 1, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 30, Mets lose 6-5

June 29, Mets lose 10-8

June 28, Tie game, winner unknown.

June 27, Mets lose 5-2

June 26, Mets lose 9-3

June 25, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 24, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 23, Mets lose 3-2

June 22, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 21, Mets lose 10-8

Ok, I went back more than 2 weeks. I stopped there because I got bored. Even making the ridiculous assumption that adding one player (I randomly picked Dunn but it could just as easily be Player X) automatically added two runs per game for every single game, the outcome of the last sixteen games would still have been the same, except for two, where the games would have been tied. So even in those situations, we don't know if the Mets would have won or lost those games in extra innings.

You gotta go all the way back to June 18 before you find one single game where adding a player who automatically adds 2 runs to the offense actually affirmatively changes a loss to a win.

This team, even with such a trade (and we all know one player cannot automatically add 2 runs a game every single game), would still be in exactly the same place it is now, including with respect to morale, incentive, expectations, etc.

This team has been devastated with injuries to the lineup, rotation, and bullpen. Even if Omar had made a trade weeks ago, we'd all be right where we are right now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:22 am 
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I think Vacarro's point is sound here, but 2 things:

1) You're right Metro-- the time for such a move was about a month ago. If you're trying to match with a team looking merely to shed some payroll, they were looking to do that on June 1, too. Needed to help the team stay afloat. Right now it's like plugging the hole in the ship after its already underwater.

2) While the ability to take on payroll should be the Mets NUMBER 1 TRADING CHIP, it's something they have NEVER shown the inclination to do and I highly doubt they do it now. They almost always have an arbitrary payroll that they refuse to go over; its why a bat was never seriously pursued in the offseason. And despite Omar/Jeff at the time saying they would have the ability to add payroll when needs arose during the season-- don't you think this would be the situation where needs have arisen?? And yet, not even a whisper.

You can argue it all you want, but Rubin, not some hack NY Post reporter, yesterday said multiple times that the feeling in the locker room is spiraling downwards quickly. The 25 guys in there know they are not good enough. That's a tough thing to overcome by just "gutting it out" until the "cavalry" returns (which may be never).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:23 am 
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R Nitelight wrote:
They gotta write about something.

Evan Roberts was killing the Mets yesterday for not getting Ryan Freel.

Jeebus.



8)


Evan Roberts is a hack and I am convinced he has blackmailed WFAN into giving a guy with a HS education and nil radio experience a top job.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:27 am 
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If he called for Mets season-ticket holders to ask for the ownership to give disclosure on their finances then I would find this article intruiging.

It's just white noise if not a throw-away screed.

Our farm system is woeful? He backs this up how?

Newsflash, Roy Halladay just got made available yesterday. I am sure there are discussions over what they could give to the Blue Jays and what the Blue Jays would want. Matt Holliday at this point would be completely ill-advised. I am not convinced he could do big market, I am not convinced he could do CitiField, and I am not convinced we could re-sign him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:33 am 
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Rios and Dunn, maybe Holliday.

I see no other team who has been actively parading parts for sale that MIGHT be difference makers. Now Rios is a salary dump alone so the talent required for the trade might be insignificant, but the talent reportedly required to acquire Dunn, Holliday, has been pretty cost prohibitive.

Omar got flack for not pursuing DeRosa more, but imagine what the papers would have said if the Mets had sent Parnell and Ike Davis for him, only to see him go 1-12 before landing on the DL for an extended period.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:34 am 
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When you dont have a single major league player capable of hitting a double, let alone a home run. You do need to do something. There are players you can go get.
The whole tread water, stay close mantra is a cop out.

Say this season will be building toward the future or not. I know Citified is new and shiny and we want to pretend to contend. NY fans are a little smarter than given credit.

Either the Mets become a real part of the Big Boys and use their financial clout (A team with a new stadium and a network has it despite madoff) to get the players they need or admit you are small market and stop getting stopgaps and put in real resources to scouting and the draft (meaning drafting over slot)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:36 am 
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Monsoon wrote:
Ugh. Fine so let's say the Mets made a move a couple weeks ago to get Dunn.

And let's say he hit a 2-run home run in every single game.

July 7, Mets lose 8-2

July 6, no game

July 5, Tie game. Winner unknown.

July 4, Mets lose 4-3

July 3, Mets lose 7-4

July 2, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

July 1, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 30, Mets lose 6-5

June 29, Mets lose 10-8

June 28, Tie game, winner unknown.

June 27, Mets lose 5-2

June 26, Mets lose 9-3

June 25, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 24, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 23, Mets lose 3-2

June 22, Mets won without him, so they'd win with him.

June 21, Mets lose 10-8

Ok, I went back more than 2 weeks. I stopped there because I got bored. Even making the ridiculous assumption that adding one player (I randomly picked Dunn but it could just as easily be Player X) automatically added two runs per game for every single game, the outcome of the last sixteen games would still have been the same, except for two, where the games would have been tied. So even in those situations, we don't know if the Mets would have won or lost those games in extra innings.

You gotta go all the way back to June 18 before you find one single game where adding a player who automatically adds 2 runs to the offense actually affirmatively changes a loss to a win.

This team, even with such a trade (and we all know one player cannot automatically add 2 runs a game every single game), would still be in exactly the same place it is now, including with respect to morale, incentive, expectations, etc.

This team has been devastated with injuries to the lineup, rotation, and bullpen. Even if Omar had made a trade weeks ago, we'd all be right where we are right now.


This is a bogus argument because you can't calculate his affect on a lineup and the opponents/Mets strategy around it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:39 am 
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And all the injuries have had nothing to do with anything? Go trade to replace Reyes, Delgado, Beltran, Maine, Ollie, Putz...

Losing one of those guys is one thing. All of them? Just what exactly does anyone expect?

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