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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:21 pm 
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zaknim wrote:
I'd say Rodriguez has the most value. His stuff is off the charts. Clippard is better then either 2 also.


Saw Rodriguez last week. Great stuff but has difficulty locating. Sounds like Parnell to me :lol:

Ryan Perry is another great one the Nats have.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
Jon Heyman ‏ @JonHeymanCBS

#rangers lhp robbie ross (4-0, 2.84 era) was in package offered for beltran. wheeler seen as having more upside tho. #mets


FWIW.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:35 pm 
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nmigliore wrote:
MikeH wrote:
But he swings a pretty weak stick.

He had a 115 OPS+ last season.

His defense alone is probably worth more than what Parnell is worth (and I'm a Parnell fan). I don't get why defense gets thrown aside so easily; it is quite valuable and carries importance.

Despite the rough start, ZiPS sees Bourjos as a 3-win player the rest of the season.


Jeff Francoeur had a 118 OPS+ last year. Casey Kotchman had a 128 OPS+. Bobby Abreu had a 103 OPS+.

I don't like OPS+. I like counting stats.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:37 pm 
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chinabox wrote:
Quote:
Jon Heyman ‏ @JonHeymanCBS

#rangers lhp robbie ross (4-0, 2.84 era) was in package offered for beltran. wheeler seen as having more upside tho. #mets


FWIW.



I like Ross a lot but "4-0 2.84" is a bit misleading... he has 4 wins in 12 innings pitched out of the pen.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:54 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
nmigliore wrote:
MikeH wrote:
But he swings a pretty weak stick.

He had a 115 OPS+ last season.

His defense alone is probably worth more than what Parnell is worth (and I'm a Parnell fan). I don't get why defense gets thrown aside so easily; it is quite valuable and carries importance.

Despite the rough start, ZiPS sees Bourjos as a 3-win player the rest of the season.


Jeff Francoeur had a 118 OPS+ last year. Casey Kotchman had a 128 OPS+. Bobby Abreu had a 103 OPS+.

I don't like OPS+. I like counting stats.


Do you like defense? Because none of those guys play it.

edit: and it's kind of ironic to use Francoeur as proof rate states are misleading when 5 years ago his back to back 100 RBI seasons were suppose to prove he was a franchise player.


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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Jeff Francoeur is a great defender. Casey Kotchman was billed as an ace with the glove. Don't think he amounts to much anymore though.

I wanted to show that players who are generally viewed as poor hitters can register a nice OPS+ for a season.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:01 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
Jeff Francoeur is a great defender. Casey Kotchman was billed as an ace with the glove. Don't think he amounts to much anymore though.

I wanted to show that players who are generally viewed as poor hitters can register a nice OPS+ for a season.


Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?


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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:02 pm 
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charliedvrs wrote:
edit: and it's kind of ironic to use Francoeur as proof rate states are misleading when 5 years ago his back to back 100 RBI seasons were suppose to prove he was a franchise player.



That is why I used him

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:06 pm 
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charliedvrs wrote:
Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?


Not at all. I am saying that one good OPS+ does not mean you are a good hitter. And I question Bourjos bat. I don't think he will be a good hitter going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
charliedvrs wrote:
Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?


Not at all. I am saying that one good OPS+ does not mean you are a good hitter. And I question Bourjos bat. I don't think he will be a good hitter going forward.


Gotcha, don't disagree with that. It was the "I prefer counting stats" comment that confused me.

I'm not convinced he's a good hitter going forward either. His glove is just so good that even if he's just an average bat he's a 4-5 win player. I think that's a worthwile gamble for any pitcher we have who can't throw more than 2 innings at a time. You don't get someone with a proven bat at that price.


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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:29 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
I don't like OPS+. I like counting stats.

Oh dear.

#-o

Considering that statement, I'm sure this means little to you, but even if Bourjos' true talent is an average hitter (which, if you take his career in whole, he looks like with a wRC+ and OPS+ hovering around 100), he's still a good player due his excellent glove. Doing the quick math, that's something around a 3-win player over 600 PA.

I love Parnell but unless he turns into Craig Kimbrel, he's not going to be worth as much as Bourjos.


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 Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com was told be a "high-ranking Angels source" that there's no more truth to the Peter Bourjos-to-the-Nationals rumor now than there was in the offseason.
And, Gonzalez says there was "zero" chance of it happening then. The Angels are reportedly talking to multiple teams about the speedy outfielder, but it appears that no deal is close and might be a longshot to happen. Bourjos' playing time has been curtailed big-time lately, but the Angels also likely having him as depth.
Related: Nationals
Source: Alden Gonzalez on Twitter
May 11 - 3:01 PM

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