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Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:28 pm
NYFS Staff
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:15 pm Posts: 29976 Location: The District
Quote:
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
#rangers lhp robbie ross (4-0, 2.84 era) was in package offered for beltran. wheeler seen as having more upside tho. #mets
FWIW.
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"Well, this year I'm told the team did well because one pitcher had a fine curve ball. I understand that a curve ball is thrown with a deliberate attempt to deceive. Surely this is not an ability we should want to foster at Harvard." -Charles Eliot
His defense alone is probably worth more than what Parnell is worth (and I'm a Parnell fan). I don't get why defense gets thrown aside so easily; it is quite valuable and carries importance.
Despite the rough start, ZiPS sees Bourjos as a 3-win player the rest of the season.
Jeff Francoeur had a 118 OPS+ last year. Casey Kotchman had a 128 OPS+. Bobby Abreu had a 103 OPS+.
I don't like OPS+. I like counting stats.
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Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:54 pm
Everyday Player
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:05 pm Posts: 1157 Location: Boston, MA
MikeH wrote:
nmigliore wrote:
MikeH wrote:
But he swings a pretty weak stick.
He had a 115 OPS+ last season.
His defense alone is probably worth more than what Parnell is worth (and I'm a Parnell fan). I don't get why defense gets thrown aside so easily; it is quite valuable and carries importance.
Despite the rough start, ZiPS sees Bourjos as a 3-win player the rest of the season.
Jeff Francoeur had a 118 OPS+ last year. Casey Kotchman had a 128 OPS+. Bobby Abreu had a 103 OPS+.
I don't like OPS+. I like counting stats.
Do you like defense? Because none of those guys play it.
edit: and it's kind of ironic to use Francoeur as proof rate states are misleading when 5 years ago his back to back 100 RBI seasons were suppose to prove he was a franchise player.
Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:01 pm
Everyday Player
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:05 pm Posts: 1157 Location: Boston, MA
MikeH wrote:
Jeff Francoeur is a great defender. Casey Kotchman was billed as an ace with the glove. Don't think he amounts to much anymore though.
I wanted to show that players who are generally viewed as poor hitters can register a nice OPS+ for a season.
Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?
edit: and it's kind of ironic to use Francoeur as proof rate states are misleading when 5 years ago his back to back 100 RBI seasons were suppose to prove he was a franchise player.
That is why I used him
_________________ "Only water, Sam. Only water." --Gilly
Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?
Not at all. I am saying that one good OPS+ does not mean you are a good hitter. And I question Bourjos bat. I don't think he will be a good hitter going forward.
_________________ "Only water, Sam. Only water." --Gilly
Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 pm
Everyday Player
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:05 pm Posts: 1157 Location: Boston, MA
MikeH wrote:
charliedvrs wrote:
Jeff Francoeur is a decent right fielder with a good arm. Bourjos is right up there as one of the best centerfielders in the game. I don't know what the rate vs. counting start argument is about. Are you saying that it's more likely to have one good OPS+ season than one good counting stat season?
Not at all. I am saying that one good OPS+ does not mean you are a good hitter. And I question Bourjos bat. I don't think he will be a good hitter going forward.
Gotcha, don't disagree with that. It was the "I prefer counting stats" comment that confused me.
I'm not convinced he's a good hitter going forward either. His glove is just so good that even if he's just an average bat he's a 4-5 win player. I think that's a worthwile gamble for any pitcher we have who can't throw more than 2 innings at a time. You don't get someone with a proven bat at that price.
Considering that statement, I'm sure this means little to you, but even if Bourjos' true talent is an average hitter (which, if you take his career in whole, he looks like with a wRC+ and OPS+ hovering around 100), he's still a good player due his excellent glove. Doing the quick math, that's something around a 3-win player over 600 PA.
I love Parnell but unless he turns into Craig Kimbrel, he's not going to be worth as much as Bourjos.
Post subject: Re: In-Season Notes Not Worth Their Own Thread Thread
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:40 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm Posts: 57687 Location: New York, NY
Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com was told be a "high-ranking Angels source" that there's no more truth to the Peter Bourjos-to-the-Nationals rumor now than there was in the offseason. And, Gonzalez says there was "zero" chance of it happening then. The Angels are reportedly talking to multiple teams about the speedy outfielder, but it appears that no deal is close and might be a longshot to happen. Bourjos' playing time has been curtailed big-time lately, but the Angels also likely having him as depth. Related: Nationals Source: Alden Gonzalez on Twitter May 11 - 3:01 PM
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