Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:22 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm Posts: 41125
zaknim wrote:
It would be incredibly shortsighted to call Harvey now and I think Sandy & Co. know better than that.
I don't see it as shortsighted. He would likely not be helping you win right now through growing pains - shortsighted is doing something for the short-term gain at the expense of long-term greater gains. Utilizing Jordany Valdespin as a strict pinch-runner/athlete off the bench this year, instead of getting him ABs, because he represents the best athlete in the org would be shortsighted. Using 20 yr old developing starter Jenrry Mejia as a reliever because he has a big fastball and you didn't bring in any bullpen pieces to speak of would be shortsighted.
Using Matt Harvey in a major league rotation, which is his eventual role, wouldn't really be short-sighted; it'd be perhaps a bit foolish as he may be worse off for getting hit hard as an unfinished product. It might be an attempt to generate some buzz at the expense of success of a young kid. But you're not really going to (likely) gain anything short-term from it that would be sacrificing long term. He'd be getting his innings and would be facing obviously the biggest tests he had to date. But you'd be dealing with a lot of poor starts and you don't know how he'd refer to that.
But he's 23, from a major college program. Its not like you're rushing a kid emotionally or anything. He's just not a finished product right now that would make him likely to succeed in the bigs.
Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:39 pm
Veteran Presence
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:14 pm Posts: 4075
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
zaknim wrote:
It would be incredibly shortsighted to call Harvey now and I think Sandy & Co. know better than that.
I don't see it as shortsighted. He would likely not be helping you win right now through growing pains - shortsighted is doing something for the short-term gain at the expense of long-term greater gains. Utilizing Jordany Valdespin as a strict pinch-runner/athlete off the bench this year, instead of getting him ABs, because he represents the best athlete in the org would be shortsighted. Using 20 yr old developing starter Jenrry Mejia as a reliever because he has a big fastball and you didn't bring in any bullpen pieces to speak of would be shortsighted.
Using Matt Harvey in a major league rotation, which is his eventual role, wouldn't really be short-sighted; it'd be perhaps a bit foolish as he may be worse off for getting hit hard as an unfinished product. It might be an attempt to generate some buzz at the expense of success of a young kid. But you're not really going to (likely) gain anything short-term from it that would be sacrificing long term. He'd be getting his innings and would be facing obviously the biggest tests he had to date. But you'd be dealing with a lot of poor starts and you don't know how he'd refer to that.
But he's 23, from a major college program. Its not like you're rushing a kid emotionally or anything. He's just not a finished product right now that would make him likely to succeed in the bigs.
Calling someone up before they're ready can can have long term consequences. I'd like to think Harvey has great confidence but if he comes up and struggles who knows what that could do to his psyche. You should only call up a player when you think they can have success otherwise I would call it shortsighted. There might be different degrees as you pointed out especially with the Mejia case. That would be on the 10th level where Harvey might be more of a 5 or 6. Don't get me wrong I'd be super pumped to see him pitch at this level but it's just not a good time to have him here now. Also, it's dumb to start his clock so prematurely when as a team we'd be better off having him that extra year when we might be winning more.
Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:44 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm Posts: 57559 Location: New York, NY
I think Edwin Jackson is a decent example of a guy of a really talented guy being rushed. I spoke to a writer a few years ago and they said Jackson really had trouble believing in himself once he got pounded so badly at a young age. I'm not saying Harvey would have the same reaction but I really don't think he'd be even half way decent at the moment. He's routinely behind hitters and is forced to groove FB's. I don't think that's a recipe for success.
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Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:57 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm Posts: 41125
Im not disagreeing with your premise ; merely the term short-sighted. I just don't think that's right- that makes it seem like it would be the wrong call regardless of what he's doing and I don't think that's the case. It's simply the wrong call because he's not ready. Not really an experience or age or something like that factor. Plenty of guys with his pedigree at his age and experience are in the bigs- they're cream of the crop types, but that's what Harvey is too. Look at where some of the guys picked right around him are- Pomeranz, Sale.
He simply doesn't have the tools to succeed in the bigs, I don't think, right now. Too reliant on 2 pitches, no fastball command yet and hasn't really built up arm strength and stamina.
If he was showing full control and command of his arsenal, pitching deep, blowing thru the international League, he'd absolutely, 100% be the right call given the circumstances, IMO.
Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:01 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm Posts: 57559 Location: New York, NY
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Im not disagreeing with your premise ; merely the term short-sighted. I just don't think that's right- that makes it seem like it would be the wrong call regardless of what he's doing and I don't think that's the case. It's simply the wrong call because he's not ready. Not really an experience or age or something like that factor. Plenty of guys with his pedigree at his age and experience are in the bigs- they're cream of the crop types, but that's what Harvey is too. Look at where some of the guys picked right around him are- Pomeranz, Sale.
He simply doesn't have the tools to succeed in the bigs, I don't think, right now. Too reliant on 2 pitches, no fastball command yet and hasn't really built up arm strength and stamina.
If he was showing full control and command of his arsenal, pitching deep, blowing thru the international League, he'd absolutely, 100% be the right call given the circumstances, IMO.
Funny you bring up Sale. I decided to go back and look at some of the draft stuff from that year. Luckily my wishlist wasn't that embarrassing
Quote:
Metro2007 wrote:
My wishlist- 1. Harper 2. Taillon 3. Machado 4. Whitson 5. Chris Sale 6. Josh Sale 7.Harvey 8. Pomeranz 9. Choice 10. O'Connor 11. Brentz
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Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:04 pm
NYFS Staff
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:39 pm Posts: 19070 Location: Jersey City
Jon Niese has been in the bigs long enough to get a $25 mil extension. And he's known success and failure in MLB.
I was listening to Tuesday night's game on the radio and Howie and Josh were saying TC had told the pitchers you have to go inside on the right-handed hitters, regardless of the short LF line.
As soon as Niese got beat on that short homer, he was pitching away to the righties. He certainly knew better, but he had been burned.
You havw to take that kind of thing into account before you promote a guy who's likely going to get knocked around at this time.
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Post subject: Re: Late IGT!!! Everybody loves the Schwin vs Wandy R
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:30 pm
Legend of NYFS
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I can't lie Heftino is winning me over
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