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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:04 am 
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@BrianCostaWSJ: Ike Davis ranks dead last in the majors in WAR (-1.1). about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:33 am 
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I would say it makes almost too much sense that when Bay returns, Ike is sent down, Duda moves to 1B, Kirk to RF, and Bay to LF. And in a way, that might not be the worst thing in the world, since A) Ike has been one of the worst, if not THE worst player in the Majors this season, and B) it gets Duda out of the outfield.


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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:40 am 
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nmigliore wrote:
I would say it makes almost too much sense that when Bay returns, Ike is sent down, Duda moves to 1B, Kirk to RF, and Bay to LF. And in a way, that might not be the worst thing in the world, since A) Ike has been one of the worst, if not THE worst player in the Majors this season, and B) it gets Duda out of the outfield.


Right.

And in the meantime, with TC discussing wanting to get Baxter in there but then saying he doesn't feel comfortable using Baxter at 1B because he doesn't have many reps there (Oy, Terry, he was a 1B in college and throughout the minors!!), and with Duda taking grounders at 1B lately, wouldn't mind seeing Baxter in RF for the time being with Duda at 1B, at least until Baxter cools off a bit*.

*Obviously the .500+ BABIP isn't lasting, but he does have a ridiculous 39% line drive rate, which would by far the highest mark in the majors if he qualified, meaning he's not just blooping and bleeding his way to a super high BA that is inevitable to crash as luck evens out - he's had luck, but he's also just crushing baseballs right now for whatever reason.


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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:48 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
nmigliore wrote:
I would say it makes almost too much sense that when Bay returns, Ike is sent down, Duda moves to 1B, Kirk to RF, and Bay to LF. And in a way, that might not be the worst thing in the world, since A) Ike has been one of the worst, if not THE worst player in the Majors this season, and B) it gets Duda out of the outfield.


Right.

And in the meantime, with TC discussing wanting to get Baxter in there but then saying he doesn't feel comfortable using Baxter at 1B because he doesn't have many reps there (Oy, Terry, he was a 1B in college and throughout the minors!!), and with Duda taking grounders at 1B lately, wouldn't mind seeing Baxter in RF for the time being with Duda at 1B, at least until Baxter cools off a bit*.

*Obviously the .500+ BABIP isn't lasting, but he does have a ridiculous 39% line drive rate, which would by far the highest mark in the majors if he qualified, meaning he's not just blooping and bleeding his way to a super high BA that is inevitable to crash as luck evens out - he's had luck, but he's also just crushing baseballs right now for whatever reason.



Everyone knows 1b is easier in college and in the minors.

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:56 am 
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To be fair, I'd prefer Duda move to 1B if you're going to bring Baxter into the mix more anyway. You improve your OF defense and Duda is pretty much a scratch defensive 1B I think - downgrade from Ike but he's not gonna kill you there.

Just saying, since we know TC is resistant to such things, I think it'd be a shame to remove Duda from the lineup and keep Ike in to get Baxter more ABs, as mediocre as Duda has been this year.


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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:13 pm 
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I'm happy that the Mets have given Ike time to figure things out, but I think we're at the point where he really needs to be sent down.

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:39 pm 
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northway wrote:
I'm happy that the Mets have given Ike time to figure things out, but I think we're at the point where he really needs to be sent down.


Yeah especially when the alternatives are probably Kirk or Baxter. There's no "Vinny Rottino" who'll be around to be optioned when Bay comes off the DL, and we're not going to simply release Bay. A move NEEDS to be made; we've put it off long enough because there was no NEED, perhaps just a want. That changes when Bay comes off.

-You can make a case for the crashing-down-to-earth Kirk, and who knows where his numbers will be at next week when Bay is ready, and especially if there is going to be a cut in playing time, but that would mean a return to a truly terrible defensive OF, which we've avoided for a while. And Kirk does continue to hit the ball fairly hard when he does make contact, its just that the contact is becoming less and less common and the stats are plummeting. Still, I can't think of a recent example of a guy being demoted based on "expected significant recession" while his overall production is still pretty solid.

-And on Baxter, while nobody mistakes him for a superstar, I just can't think they would reward a guy hitting near-.400, albeit in a limited role, with a demotion. Maybe they'd prefer it if he were scuffling a bit as he's pretty clearly the most "disposable" guy of the bunch but he's not, at all, so I can't see that happening.

I'm not bringing up something like a Hairston DFA because quite simply they're not eating money on a guy who quite frankly is doing what they signed him to do. Just like Ronny Cedeno's not going anywhere this year regardless of how useless/redundant he appears to be when Tejada comes back.


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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:48 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
northway wrote:
I'm happy that the Mets have given Ike time to figure things out, but I think we're at the point where he really needs to be sent down.


Yeah especially when the alternatives are probably Kirk or Baxter. There's no "Vinny Rottino" who'll be around to be optioned when Bay comes off the DL, and we're not going to simply release Bay. A move NEEDS to be made; we've put it off long enough because there was no NEED, perhaps just a want. That changes when Bay comes off.

-You can make a case for the crashing-down-to-earth Kirk, and who knows where his numbers will be at next week when Bay is ready, and especially if there is going to be a cut in playing time, but that would mean a return to a truly terrible defensive OF, which we've avoided for a while. And Kirk does continue to hit the ball fairly hard when he does make contact, its just that the contact is becoming less and less common and the stats are plummeting. Still, I can't think of a recent example of a guy being demoted based on "expected significant recession" while his overall production is still pretty solid.

-And on Baxter, while nobody mistakes him for a superstar, I just can't think they would reward a guy hitting near-.400, albeit in a limited role, with a demotion. Maybe they'd prefer it if he were scuffling a bit as he's pretty clearly the most "disposable" guy of the bunch but he's not, at all, so I can't see that happening.

I'm not bringing up something like a Hairston DFA because quite simply they're not eating money on a guy who quite frankly is doing what they signed him to do. Just like Ronny Cedeno's not going anywhere this year regardless of how useless/redundant he appears to be when Tejada comes back.


I don't believe Kirk is the one to go but his OPS is down to .742 which is probably around what people realistically could have expected... but if when Bay comes back that continues to plummet I don't think it would be that unreasonable for him to be sent down. I mean he's 6-38 with 18 k's vs. lefties and is at 211/313/263 in may. Contact issues are one thing but he's not hitting for power either. You can live with strikeouts if the contact comes with some "boom" but it hasn't been.

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:50 pm 
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I think IF Ike goes down, the mostly like move for him to come back up is an eventual Kirk demotion.

I just don't think a FO would make a move based on expected continued regression from Kirk when Ike has been just so terrible.

"Based on merit, Ike deserved to go down, but we believe that Kirk would've likely been down there with him before long" is a tough sell.


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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:53 pm 
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You send Ike down.

Once people start complaining about Duda or Cut-and-Paste, you swap them.

Rinse.

Repeat.


8)

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:57 pm 
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R Nitelight wrote:
You send Ike down.

Once people start complaining about Duda or Cut-and-Paste, you swap them.

Rinse.

Repeat.


8)



People aren't randomly "complaining". Professional baseball is about production not prospect status or what the fans want. These guys aren't performing.

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 Post subject: Re: TC no longer rules out Davis to minors
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:


People aren't randomly "complaining". Professional baseball is about production not prospect status or what the fans want. These guys aren't performing.


But they do tend to fall in love with the shiny new toy, and tend to fall out of love almost as quickly.


8)

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