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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
MacDonald was 2011, no?

Yep.


Yeah so the only draft he has ever been responsible for with any organization ended up with Fulmer, Nimmo, Gsellman, Gant, Muno, Mazzoni, Verrett, Pill, Taijeron, Evans, Lugo, Bradford all seeing the bigs. dang impressive for a guy running his only draft, hardly some track record of poor drafts in other places. I'd be happy to bring him back.


Calling this a win is why obsessing over the MLB draft is silly. 40 shots and looks like 1 impact talent and a bunch of guys who made MLB cameos in times of need but showed why they aren't MLB talents.

I'm not saying it's a bad outcome draft. It just doesn't strike me as being necessarily a sign of some great skill at this over others in the industry. In fact, the previously cited 2010 draft by universally hated Rudy Terrasas looks just as good!

The whole "tank for a better pick!" Is silly in baseball. This isn't the NBA.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:06 am 
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C'mon. You end up picking 13th overall and end up with Fulmer, Nimmo, Lugo (Fulmer and Lugo have already combined for 10.8 bWAR, Gsellman (pathetic season or not, the guy was taken 13th round, if I recall you were loving Gsellman last year, whatever happened to him isn't exactly clear but it wasn't some sort of scouting miss)) you had a very nice draft (for your one year doing so). They also drafted AJ Reed and offer him 1 million to sign and he balked. He may end up a total bust but he just hit 34 homers and is at least a good a prospect as Alonso. The statement was made he had poor drafts. He had 1 draft and considering the Mets were picking 13th and not top 5-6 he did quite well. Michael Fulmer 6.5 fWAR over 51 MLB starts, Gsellman as disappointing as he was this year career 1.9 fWAR over 25 MLB starts, Lugo 22 MLB starts 1.8 fWAR. That draft was a win by any reasonable standards. If you somehow came away with a Fulmer, Nimmo, Lugo, Gsellman every 2 years, let alone every year you would have quite a solid farm system.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:09 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
C'mon. You end up picking 13th overall and end up with Fulmer, Nimmo, Lugo (Fulmer and Lugo have already combined for 10.8 bWAR, Gsellman (pathetic season or not, the guy was taken 13th round) you had a very nice draft (for your one year doing so). They also drafted AJ Reed and offer him 1 million to sign and he balked. He may end up a total bust but he just hit 34 homers and is at least a good a prospect as Alonso. The statement was made he had poor drafts. He had 1 draft and considering the Mets were picking 13th and not top 5-6 he did quite well.


Is it any different than a team picking 25th could have done (especially since a random D3 college guy picked in the 34th round is propping the whole thing up)? Or a team without a 1st round pick?

Again, seems like its more ammo for "Draft is a crapshoot" than "Wow with the right people in charge you can really dominate the draft!!!"


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:11 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
C'mon. You end up picking 13th overall and end up with Fulmer, Nimmo, Lugo (Fulmer and Lugo have already combined for 10.8 bWAR, Gsellman (pathetic season or not, the guy was taken 13th round) you had a very nice draft (for your one year doing so). They also drafted AJ Reed and offer him 1 million to sign and he balked. He may end up a total bust but he just hit 34 homers and is at least a good a prospect as Alonso. The statement was made he had poor drafts. He had 1 draft and considering the Mets were picking 13th and not top 5-6 he did quite well.


Is it any different than a team picking 25th could have done (especially since a random D3 college guy picked in the 34th round is propping the whole thing up)? Or a team without a 1st round pick?

Again, seems like its more ammo for "Draft is a crapshoot" than "Wow with the right people in charge you can really dominate the draft!!!"


Who said ANYTHING about draft "domination"? You seemed to pick up the argument in the middle and go in your own direction. I noted how "strong" his draft was in response to

"Is MacDonald the guy that had the iffy record in drafts (not just with Mets)?"

You would suggest the 2011 draft was "iffy"? I find that hard to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:30 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
C'mon. You end up picking 13th overall and end up with Fulmer, Nimmo, Lugo (Fulmer and Lugo have already combined for 10.8 bWAR, Gsellman (pathetic season or not, the guy was taken 13th round) you had a very nice draft (for your one year doing so). They also drafted AJ Reed and offer him 1 million to sign and he balked. He may end up a total bust but he just hit 34 homers and is at least a good a prospect as Alonso. The statement was made he had poor drafts. He had 1 draft and considering the Mets were picking 13th and not top 5-6 he did quite well.


Is it any different than a team picking 25th could have done (especially since a random D3 college guy picked in the 34th round is propping the whole thing up)? Or a team without a 1st round pick?

Again, seems like its more ammo for "Draft is a crapshoot" than "Wow with the right people in charge you can really dominate the draft!!!"


Who said ANYTHING about draft "domination"? You seemed to pick up the argument in the middle and go in your own direction. I noted how "strong" his draft was in response to

"Is MacDonald the guy that had the iffy record in drafts (not just with Mets)?"



You said that you'd like to have him back ostensibly bc of how well the 2011 draft turned out. MJ is questioning how well the 2011 draft turned out and thus whether the superior drafting/talent evaluation skills of MacDonald are truly superior or not.

What is unclear here?


I said above that the 2011 draft may have been this era's best yield, but that may not be saying a lot. 2015 could end up a nice draft if players get healthy but it's a long way from paying off.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:39 am 
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Huh? Who called anything "superior"? Domination? Talk about adding in hyperbolic language. That wasn't a word I used in the least. It was "claimed" MacDonald had a poor track record. 2011 draft (so far) is the best of this era. MacDonald did NOT have a poor track record. This is false. /TheEnd

And yeah I would take what they did in 2011 over what they have done in recent years. Taking guys with utility player UPSIDE who end up garbage before they even hit AA. Guy I spoke to called their college bat picks in recent years "awful". I'd take the 2011 draft over what we have done so yes I would take MacDonald back over what we have had in charge. Pretty clear right?

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:48 am 
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Answer me this, if you heard Tanous was being re-assigned and MacDonald was returning to run the draft what would your reaction be? I find it hard to believe it would be disappointed. The Mets somehow take college bats top 10 rounds that flame out before they even do anything as a pro. Gene Cone? Woodmansee? Garcia? Tyler Moore? Michael Katz? Mazzilli? King? etc etc. They don't even draft guys who flame out in AA/AAA.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
Huh? Who called anything "superior"? Domination? Talk about adding in hyperbolic language. That wasn't a word I used in the least. It was "claimed" MacDonald had a poor track record. 2011 draft (so far) is the best of this era. MacDonald did NOT have a poor track record. This is false. /TheEnd



Wuuh? If this thread hadn't been getting all kinds of daffy already...

Go back and read what you wrote. You have been saying quite a bit more about MacDonald's one draft than 'it wasn't poor.'

When you first thought he ran the 2010 draft, you called that "incredible." Then when you realized it was 2011, you called that "dang impressive." I don't know why you're walking this all back now.

And boy, could this be more apropos of exactly nothing relevant to the Mets...? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:00 am 
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Since 2011 the Mets have used top 10 round picks on the following college bats

Cole Frenzel (over slot disaster), Muno, Plawecki, Reynolds, Boyd, Richie Rodriguez, Mazzilli, King, Stuart, Oberste, Biondi, Garcia (JC), Moore, Katz, Conforto, Thompson, Mazeika, Kaczmarski, Tiberi, Woodmansee, Paez, Cone, Alonso, Brodey, Winaker

That is an unbelievably bad group of picks even in terms of AA/AAA depth over 7 drafts (I'm not saying 2015-2017 the door is closed) but overall? Wow.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:01 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
Huh? Who called anything "superior"? Domination? Talk about adding in hyperbolic language. That wasn't a word I used in the least. It was "claimed" MacDonald had a poor track record. 2011 draft (so far) is the best of this era. MacDonald did NOT have a poor track record. This is false. /TheEnd



Wuuh? If this thread hadn't been getting all kinds of daffy already...

Go back and read what you wrote. You have been saying quite a bit more about MacDonald's one draft than 'it wasn't poor.'

When you first thought he ran the 2010 draft, you called that "incredible." Then when you realized it was 2011, you called that "dang impressive." I don't know why you're walking this all back now.

And boy, could this be more apropos of exactly nothing relevant to the Mets...? :lol:



What? Fulmer/Lugo/Nimmo/Gsellman isn't an impressive draft? That from the guy who raved about Gene Cone and Kevin Kaczmarski...

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:05 am 
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As I said, I'll take the 2011 draft each and every year and be quite happy. But hey, Paez is a top 10 prospect in the system per "some"... won't name any names of course.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 International Signings Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:06 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
Huh? Who called anything "superior"? Domination? Talk about adding in hyperbolic language. That wasn't a word I used in the least. It was "claimed" MacDonald had a poor track record. 2011 draft (so far) is the best of this era. MacDonald did NOT have a poor track record. This is false. /TheEnd



Wuuh? If this thread hadn't been getting all kinds of daffy already...

Go back and read what you wrote. You have been saying quite a bit more about MacDonald's one draft than 'it wasn't poor.'

When you first thought he ran the 2010 draft, you called that "incredible." Then when you realized it was 2011, you called that "dang impressive." I don't know why you're walking this all back now.

And boy, could this be more apropos of exactly nothing relevant to the Mets...? :lol:



What? Fulmer/Lugo/Nimmo/Gsellman isn't an impressive draft? That from the guy who raved about Gene Cone and Kevin Kaczmarski...


Oy. :lol:


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