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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:54 am 
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Blue Chipper

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 441
slugox wrote:
It'll be exciting (when we finally get there) to have a top 5 pick in the draft, or near to it. We'll pick someone who will likely instantly become our best prospect. I may be in the minority, but I find that worth looking forward to.

I wouldn't ever want the Mets to tank from the beginning of a season. But in this current case tanking makes sense. Also a second purpose of evaluating the Knicks de can be achieved. Win-win.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:00 am 
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General Manager

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 7143
Comparing the trade of 40 year old Dickey for top prospects to the wheelbarrow load of crap we got this year is laughable. I think you're all kidding yourselves if you think this is building towards a 2018 contender. Maybe we'll see our #5 guy in the majors just in time for deGrom to leave.

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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:03 am 
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Rookie

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:16 pm
Posts: 751
how is next years draft at least?


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm
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TomInNC wrote:
Comparing the trade of 40 year old Dickey for top prospects to the wheelbarrow load of crap we got this year is laughable. I think you're all kidding yourselves if you think this is building towards a 2018 contender. Maybe we'll see our #5 guy in the majors just in time for deGrom to leave.


And you're willfully misinterpreting my post. You're opposed to any now for future trades and dismiss every single prospect as a lottery ticket, you may claim that's not the case but every other post of yours for months has complained about trading these players even before we knew the return would be this underwhelming. I just used the Dickey trade as one of many examples where 'tank' trades do help down the road. And that was an offseason tank trade, not a 'we're 15 out in August anyway, might as well cash out' one.

Do I think most of the guys they got this year will ever help the Mets? Probably not, but hey let's waste payroll money and assets just to go from 65 wins to 75 and finish 15 games out of the playoffs instead of 25 in a season that was already a lost cause weeks ago!


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:01 am 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:59 pm
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Location: Land of the Nats and Redskins
Laxin wrote:
how is next years draft at least?


Early thoughts are pretty strong, I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:25 pm 
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General Manager

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
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AllWrightNow wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Comparing the trade of 40 year old Dickey for top prospects to the wheelbarrow load of crap we got this year is laughable. I think you're all kidding yourselves if you think this is building towards a 2018 contender. Maybe we'll see our #5 guy in the majors just in time for deGrom to leave.


And you're willfully misinterpreting my post. You're opposed to any now for future trades and dismiss every single prospect as a lottery ticket, you may claim that's not the case but every other post of yours for months has complained about trading these players even before we knew the return would be this underwhelming. I just used the Dickey trade as one of many examples where 'tank' trades do help down the road. And that was an offseason tank trade, not a 'we're 15 out in August anyway, might as well cash out' one.

Do I think most of the guys they got this year will ever help the Mets? Probably not, but hey let's waste payroll money and assets just to go from 65 wins to 75 and finish 15 games out of the playoffs instead of 25 in a season that was already a lost cause weeks ago!


So you're acknowledging that the Dickey trade doesn't match with this years "haul".

I've been against wasting my time for a third of a season for a crap return that's not going to make 2018 any better.

Now I also get to listen to a winter of speculation about all the wonderful trades and FA signings that will make next year a success.

And to cut off this line of response in advance, no I won't stop watching the Mets now or ever. I will however continue to comment on them when I think they're being run poorly.

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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
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TomInNC wrote:
So you're acknowledging that the Dickey trade doesn't match with this years "haul".

I've been against wasting my time for a third of a season for a crap return that's not going to make 2018 any better.

Now I also get to listen to a winter of speculation about all the wonderful trades and FA signings that will make next year a success.



But how would hanging on to the players on expiring deals have made the 2018 season any better?


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:40 pm 
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TomInNC wrote:
So you're acknowledging that the Dickey trade doesn't match with this years "haul".

I've been against wasting my time for a third of a season for a crap return that's not going to make 2018 any better.

Now I also get to listen to a winter of speculation about all the wonderful trades and FA signings that will make next year a success.


I've never said it did. And I've said repeatedly the haul for said players is a dissapointment.

But now we get to the crux of the issue with the bolded, you only care selfishly (for lack of a better word) about watching a better product in meaningless games even if it costs us a return that might be useful down the road, even if we don't get as much of a look at the kids and other internal options that could be useful headed into the offseason and 2018.

Nothing they do in the rest of a meaningless season was going to help 2018 except assessing internal options and making moves like Ramos, both of which they did.

Quote:
Now I also get to listen to a winter of speculation about all the wonderful trades and FA signings that will make next year a success.


And if they do crap then they'll be ripped and rightly so. But you can't operate under the premise of oh well, they're not going to do anything anyway so myopically, I'd just rather watch a 75-win team to make the last two months better even though that's going to help 2018 even less.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Franchise Player

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:30 pm
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dragonfly wrote:
slugox wrote:
It'll be exciting (when we finally get there) to have a top 5 pick in the draft, or near to it. We'll pick someone who will likely instantly become our best prospect. I may be in the minority, but I find that worth looking forward to.


or Philip Humber like last time. At least they turned that into Johan Santana which was nice while that lasted.


Certainly the pick can turn out to be a bust. I'd still rather have the highest one possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:30 pm
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egelband2 wrote:
slugox wrote:
It'll be exciting (when we finally get there) to have a top 5 pick in the draft, or near to it. We'll pick someone who will likely instantly become our best prospect. I may be in the minority, but I find that worth looking forward to.

I wouldn't ever want the Mets to tank from the beginning of a season. But in this current case tanking makes sense. Also a second purpose of evaluating the Knicks de can be achieved. Win-win.


Expecting to lose every night, and usually being right, sucks. I'm just hoping there's a payoff. And it's always fun to see the young talent prove itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 11788
Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Hilltop wrote:
Laxin wrote:
how is next years draft at least?


Early thoughts are pretty strong, I believe.


There's some discussion on the draft thread about it. It's early but there's some pretty strong praise going on in there. It looks like a good draft to be picking 4-9.

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Sandy's latest statement about the Mets: "We're going to outspend the Marlins". At least he's honest.

I've always loved a good underdog story. Go Mets (2018). I know an underdog when I see one and oh-boy, this team is full blown Vegas 50 to 1 long-shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Tank Watch is officially on.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:55 am
Posts: 8296
slugox wrote:
dragonfly wrote:
slugox wrote:
It'll be exciting (when we finally get there) to have a top 5 pick in the draft, or near to it. We'll pick someone who will likely instantly become our best prospect. I may be in the minority, but I find that worth looking forward to.


or Philip Humber like last time. At least they turned that into Johan Santana which was nice while that lasted.


Certainly the pick can turn out to be a bust. I'd still rather have the highest one possible.


In which case would have been Verlander instead of Humber....

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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