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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:32 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they will explore the trade market for him this winter. Why wouldn't they?

I floated a Harvey for Profar swap in the 2018 thread and got no Metro hysterics so I guess that passed the sniff test. :lol:


If he comes back looking really sharp, then we might be selling low on an ace. If he comes back looking like he can't feel his fingers, then no one will give us anything for him anyway. Not sure how trading Harv this winter works out for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:46 pm 
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hotlyds87 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they will explore the trade market for him this winter. Why wouldn't they?

I floated a Harvey for Profar swap in the 2018 thread and got no Metro hysterics so I guess that passed the sniff test. :lol:


If he comes back looking really sharp, then we might be selling low on an ace. If he comes back looking like he can't feel his fingers, then no one will give us anything for him anyway. Not sure how trading Harv this winter works out for us.


Selling low in what context? He's a FA-to be after next year anyway. If he comes back and actually runs off several good starts might as well try to flip him for something close to whatever market value would be since you know he's gone by the end of next year one way or another. Not like we don't have a slew of #4-5 guys that can slot in (Lugo, Gsellman, Wheeler).


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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Obviously, you always listen to trade offers, but I think you just let the situation play out. If its physically possible, I think he will have a great year next year because of the contract situation and money is always something that motivated him...even as an amateur. If he's great and the Mets are in serious contention then you just play it out and either re-sign him or let him walk at the end. If he's great and the Mets stink again then you trade him before the deadline.
If he stinks...he stinks and you let him walk.

I see no situation where it would be worth moving him this winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:53 am 
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I expect nothing from him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:10 am 
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How the mighty have fallen. I'm minded of the age old adage: 'Pride goeth before the fall.'

Seems to me Harvey did himself in from day 1. Tend to think whatever talent he had was burned up by bad living and multiple injuries. Just speculation on my part - then again, his actions have spoken as loudly as any words he could offer.

That said, I do hope he comes back strong next year. It'll help the Mets, and ultimately, the team is who I root for...not the players.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:00 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:42 pm 
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AllWrightNow wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Best thing for us would be a brilliant 2018 from Harvey. It's funny. We used to love the guy. I think he's being treated a bit unfairly. It's not his fault he got injured and he never did anything as bad as Thor did (refusing a medical test), or Matz for that matter, sitting out a few weeks and I sympathize with Matz and his injury history but if Harvey did that he'd have been crucified. Meanwhile, Thor and Matz get forgiven but Harvey's the Villain. The emotional part of my brain feels that way too but the logical part thinks we're being unfair to Harvey.


The difference between Thor/Matz and Harvey is neither of the other two (as far as we know) ever showed up to a workout hungover, called in sick for a practice or 'overslept' during a playoff practice. Neither of the other two had Bora$ crying about Harvey being shut down on the eve of the playoffs. And just from a flat out personality standpoint Harvey comes off as aloof and unlikeable.


I may have overstated my point, but I don't find Harvey "unlikable" at all. I think he's gotten a bad rap. Let me use the following post to make that point.


pennst92 wrote:
How the mighty have fallen. I'm minded of the age old adage: 'Pride goeth before the fall.'

Seems to me Harvey did himself in from day 1. Tend to think whatever talent he had was burned up by bad living and multiple injuries. Just speculation on my part - then again, his actions have spoken as loudly as any words he could offer.

That said, I do hope he comes back strong next year. It'll help the Mets, and ultimately, the team is who I root for...not the players.


Harvey pitched more innings than any other pitcher coming off Tommy John ever, in the history of baseball and he's always thrown as hard as he can. Sure, Boras moaned and complained, but given that he had another injury 6 months later, Boras had a point.

Young Harvey was a bit like Thor in that sense. He pitched like his body wouldn't break down, and, perhaps predictably, his body broke down. That might show a lack of common sense, but it's also a competitive spirit. Harvey's a competitor who's having to deal with not having the same arm he had when he was 24 and facing an early end after a brilliant start to his career. That can be a tough thing to deal with.

I don't believe he's in the same class as Doc Gooden. I don't believe he partied his way out of being a top pitcher, he had two major pitching injuries. I think it's almost entirely the injuries. I mean, sure, the drinking might have hurt him, but I think what hurt him more is the shoulder surgery and recovery. I don't agree with statements like "his lifestyle helped end his career". I don't think that's fair. I think the injuries were a much bigger factor. Question going forward is how much his arm has left and if he can become more of a finesse pitcher than a power pitcher.

Now if people find him unlikable - that's fine. I'm not going to argue that, but I think too much is made of the missed practices. He had a drinking problem and he admitted that and apologized hopefully he's dealing with it and not drinking now. I don't think it's a Gooden situation - and granted, I don't know the man personally so I'm just guessing. I think a lot of people are assuming the worst cause they don't find him likable.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Sorry, but what evidence is there that a heavy workload in the first season back from Tommy John surgery is a precursor to TOS?


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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Harvey likely had the NY lifestyle before the injuries so it's not that. His arm broke down, pitchers break. He was big in terms of weight when the Mets went to the WS and was great coming back from TJ. He comes back in the best shape probably since he came up and got hurt. Again pitchers break...I hope he does back strong because I really like Matt.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:12 pm 
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sluger11787 wrote:
Sorry, but what evidence is there that a heavy workload in the first season back from Tommy John surgery is a precursor to TOS?


None. But it's tough to argue that he's not a competitor and not a guy who takes one for the team when he sets a record like that.

Everyone remembers Boras' words "Rest Harvey", but Harvey's words were "I hate pitching on an extra days rest" and "Put me in coach". And Boras, much as we hate him, might have had a point.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:06 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
The road to redemption sometimes takes some folks a long time to find...


Howdy Jdawg. You are so right. I'm living proof!

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hey if anyone cares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:09 pm 
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sluger11787 wrote:
Sorry, but what evidence is there that a heavy workload in the first season back from Tommy John surgery is a precursor to TOS?


Yeah I don't think it was a factor in Phil Hughes/Dillon Gee getting TOS.


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