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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:36 pm 
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C'mon, bro. That's (a bit) exaggerated. First of all, I'm only in this thread in response to AllWrightNow and mainly to talk about TDA where, so far, I don't get a victory lap. Second, when most of the board is against what I was posting (not against Conforto) to the point where I'm considered by some a troll and it's implied I shouldn't even be able to post my "ridiculousness" and then I turn out to be 100% right (Conforto the best player on our team, will finish among leaders in OPS, can hit lefties, etc), I'm entitled to a teeny tiny lap, right?

HeyNowHK wrote:
It's ridiculous the length to which some have made this season a patting themselves on the back exercise.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:48 pm 
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MetGirl5 wrote:

I don't really take Keith Law seriously when it comes to Terry. Law is way too "look at me, I'm smarter than everyone else".

And it's been pretty well said over the years by the beat reporters that are actually covering the Mets that the FO has a lot of influence on the day to day management of the team. And I certainly think the fact that Bruce, Ces, and Granderson were making pretty big money....and that they were looking to trade one (non-Ces) had a lot to do with those 3 guys being the "regulars" to start the year than whatever TC though. A narrative that "TC hates Conforto" has been beaten to death by some folks on twitter, and sorry I just don't see it. He was entrusted pretty quickly into important roles on the team both this year and last year. Yeah, maybe if he was an accomplished vet they would have let him go even longer last year despite the struggles, but still he did have a pretty long leash. Then eventually they ended up trading for Bruce - and I don't think that trade was made with the idea that Bruce would be the 4th OF.

As for TDA, like I said I didnt initially agree with the decision to hit him 8th, but somebody has to hit there. As for the home/road splits - are the fans booing him? I'm not sure I see the connection between the splits being indicative of low confidence. And FWIW last year he hit better at home.


I agree with this to some extent but it gets a little dicey when you sit him against lefties, etc. Moreover, at the end of the day, TC's job is to put the best players on the field to win. If you want to argue players have to overcome obstacles to do their jobs, seems like TC should be held to the same standard.

TDA's obviously aware the home fans are not happy with his performance though thankfully he's not getting Kaz Matsuied. But when you think the home fans think you suck, I think it can make it harder to play at home. Exhibit A is the thought of bringing up minor league players on the road (less pressure) and Exhibit B is Reyes recently telling Rosario that he'll feel differently on the road. You're correct about last year but this year is pretty marked.

I'll also say - and maybe I'm a wackjob in this respect - when I post on here, I'm always conscious the players could see it. That's why I'm hesitant when I post something like I did earlier that expressed a lack of confidence in Dom Smith (I don't mind as much if the players are jerky like Harvey and Robles). If I'm Dom Smith, I'm googling myself and who wants to read that negativity - can't help? I'm sure beyond things like the recent anti-TDA NY Post article, players read threads like these from time-to-time, if not this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:50 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
C'mon, bro. That's (a bit) exaggerated. First of all, I'm only in this thread in response to AllWrightNow and mainly to talk about TDA where, so far, I don't get a victory lap. Second, when most of the board is against what I was posting (not against Conforto) to the point where I'm considered by some a troll and it's implied I shouldn't even be able to post my "ridiculousness" and then I turn out to be 100% right (Conforto the best player on our team, will finish among leaders in OPS, can hit lefties, etc), I'm entitled to a teeny tiny lap, right?

HeyNowHK wrote:
It's ridiculous the length to which some have made this season a patting themselves on the back exercise.

By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:50 pm 
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My only POINT was that your crowing about Conforto, albeit in the long run correct was not what people were disagreeing with (in the long run). It's you saying it was already true in the present tense last year when he stunk and was in AAA, not future tense or potential - which I never would have disagreed on.

It would have been like me saying Michael Fulmer was already better than Matt Harvey two years ago, that would have still been ludicrous and way premature then even if 'proven' true now.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:02 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
C'mon, bro. That's (a bit) exaggerated. First of all, I'm only in this thread in response to AllWrightNow and mainly to talk about TDA where, so far, I don't get a victory lap. Second, when most of the board is against what I was posting (not against Conforto) to the point where I'm considered by some a troll and it's implied I shouldn't even be able to post my "ridiculousness" and then I turn out to be 100% right (Conforto the best player on our team, will finish among leaders in OPS, can hit lefties, etc), I'm entitled to a teeny tiny lap, right?

HeyNowHK wrote:
It's ridiculous the length to which some have made this season a patting themselves on the back exercise.

By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


Gotta be honest, these kinds of posts drive me as crazy as mine apparently do yours. I never posted TC "ruined" Conforto and specifically counteracted that charge at least once and maybe more than once. I can find the link if you want. I did make a "psychological' argument re TC / Conforto but specifically - in this very thread - was conscious of not taking credit for being right about that argument (can't be proven) but only about the result (OPS, lefties, etc). And I specifically posted again in this very thread that TDA is ultimately responsible for his own failures and for taking advantage of the opportunities provided him but that TC hasn't put him in the easiest position.

So, in short, almost nothing in your post accurately describes things have posted other than I did post that I did post what I "knew" about Conforto, however annoying that may have been.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:05 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Hilltop wrote:
Can we now get on Terry for playing Grandy over Conforto and "ruining" him going forward?


On the assumption this refers to me (?), it's based on a false narrative. I certainly never said TC "ruined" Conforto. He did, however, hurt his 2016 season (and his HOF career stats) and contribute to his temporary loss of confidence last year. And if he's going to stop playing him against lefties again, perhaps it will happen again.

Bottom line, as always, MC is now and will be for the next decade one of the league's top hitters. As such,he needs to play nearly every day.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44400&p=1398601&hilit=ruined#p1398601


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:10 pm 
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AllWrightNow wrote:
My only POINT was that your crowing about Conforto, albeit in the long run correct was not what people were disagreeing with (in the long run). It's you saying it was already true in the present tense last year when he stunk and was in AAA, not future tense or potential - which I never would have disagreed on.

It would have been like me saying Michael Fulmer was already better than Matt Harvey two years ago, that would have still been ludicrous and way premature then even if 'proven' true now.


I think Conforto was at least 95% of the player he is this year last year and would have shown that had he been handled differently. But neither of us can prove this either way.

Edit: To be more accurate, a lot of the discussions centered around whether Conforto could hit lefties, etc not whether he was "good" overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:20 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


Gotta be honest, these kinds of posts drive me as crazy as mine apparently do yours. I never posted TC "ruined" Conforto and specifically counteracted that charge at least once and maybe more than once. I can find the link if you want. I did make a "psychological' argument re TC / Conforto but specifically - in this very thread - was conscious of not taking credit for being right about that argument (can't be proven) but only about the result (OPS, lefties, etc). And I specifically posted again in this very thread that TDA is ultimately responsible for his own failures and for taking advantage of the opportunities provided him but that TC hasn't put him in the easiest position.

So, in short, almost nothing in your post accurately describes things have posted other than I did post that I did post what I "knew" about Conforto, however annoying that may have been.

OK, I totally missed it. You said "hurt" not "ruined" so I guess that pretty much invalidates everything I said... :lol:

Anyhoo, I really hope to make this the last time we cover this ground. And if it sounds like I want you to stop posting, pretty much the opposite is true... I would just hope there is something beyond the fascination of the Scooter/TDA/Collins psychological drama to analyze daily, but of course your thoughts are not for me to censor. I'm fairly certain you could add lots of great stuff if you got beyond that topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:30 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


Gotta be honest, these kinds of posts drive me as crazy as mine apparently do yours. I never posted TC "ruined" Conforto and specifically counteracted that charge at least once and maybe more than once. I can find the link if you want. I did make a "psychological' argument re TC / Conforto but specifically - in this very thread - was conscious of not taking credit for being right about that argument (can't be proven) but only about the result (OPS, lefties, etc). And I specifically posted again in this very thread that TDA is ultimately responsible for his own failures and for taking advantage of the opportunities provided him but that TC hasn't put him in the easiest position.

So, in short, almost nothing in your post accurately describes things have posted other than I did post that I did post what I "knew" about Conforto, however annoying that may have been.

OK, I totally missed it. You said "hurt" not "ruined" so I guess that pretty much invalidates everything I said... :lol:

Anyhoo, I really hope to make this the last time we cover this ground. And if it sounds like I want you to stop posting, pretty much the opposite is true... I would just hope there is something beyond the fascination of the Scooter/TDA/Collins psychological drama to analyze daily, but of course your thoughts are not for me to censor. I'm fairly certain you could add lots of great stuff if you got beyond that topic.


Thanks. I have posted quite a bit of other stuff, though so I just have to escape my rep. I even posted pre-season that Robles wasn't a major leaguer and took no victory lap when he was sent down : ) I just posted some regrettably anti-Dom stuff in this thread, though I hope I'm wrong. And I've been pro-Sewald, pro-Smoker (pretty alone on that one), pro-Bruce, at times, too. And I'm always 100% pro keeping good guys (Granderson, Walker, etc) regardless of production.

For the most part my Conforto / TDA stuff is in response to being called out by someone, although I do note when TDA is moved up in the lineup. I'm not eager to keep revisiting it either. Once Tom deferred, it was all gravy anyway : )


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:30 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


Gotta be honest, these kinds of posts drive me as crazy as mine apparently do yours. I never posted TC "ruined" Conforto and specifically counteracted that charge at least once and maybe more than once. I can find the link if you want. I did make a "psychological' argument re TC / Conforto but specifically - in this very thread - was conscious of not taking credit for being right about that argument (can't be proven) but only about the result (OPS, lefties, etc). And I specifically posted again in this very thread that TDA is ultimately responsible for his own failures and for taking advantage of the opportunities provided him but that TC hasn't put him in the easiest position.

So, in short, almost nothing in your post accurately describes things have posted other than I did post that I did post what I "knew" about Conforto, however annoying that may have been.

Listen, I'm sorry I droned on here... you have the right to advocate anything you want even if it rises to crusade level. I'm just weighing in on how tedious this whole topic has gotten by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:41 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
By May it went beyond teensy. And believe me, I have no interest in trafficking on this personal level but you've made this a lot about you and your baffling ability to "know things." I grant that it may have been an amusing lark months ago but that's long passed. Your ability to know that Scooter would be special is kinda mitigated by the fact he was drafted near the top of the 1st round after a stellar NCAA career. Moreover, claiming that TC "ruined" him last year is a subjective exercise that can never be sorted out and so you are just taking credit for that view regardless of the absence of data which proves any causality.... much like you are scapegoating TC as the reason TDA hasn't reached whatever potential you see for him. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy bc TDA will never ultimately be fully responsible for his own failures in your view, and that kinda takes you off the hook from missing on your prediction of his greatness.

All in all, I'm not sure that too many people aside from you are very invested in your prediction abilities. I can't believe how much cyber space has been taken up with this. :lol:


Gotta be honest, these kinds of posts drive me as crazy as mine apparently do yours. I never posted TC "ruined" Conforto and specifically counteracted that charge at least once and maybe more than once. I can find the link if you want. I did make a "psychological' argument re TC / Conforto but specifically - in this very thread - was conscious of not taking credit for being right about that argument (can't be proven) but only about the result (OPS, lefties, etc). And I specifically posted again in this very thread that TDA is ultimately responsible for his own failures and for taking advantage of the opportunities provided him but that TC hasn't put him in the easiest position.

So, in short, almost nothing in your post accurately describes things have posted other than I did post that I did post what I "knew" about Conforto, however annoying that may have been.

Listen, I'm sorry I droned on here... you have the right to advocate anything you want even if it rises to crusade level. I'm just weighing in on how tedious this whole topic has gotten by now.


No worries. I agree it's old.


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 Post subject: Re: Two bad teams and no Rosario IGT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:47 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Listen, I'm sorry I droned on here... you have the right to advocate anything you want even if it rises to crusade level. I'm just weighing in on how tedious this whole topic has gotten by now.


No worries. I agree it's old.


And if, as you suggested above, that you want to move past your rep here, you may want to consider curtailing the constant back patting.


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