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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:42 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
Rookie ball guys, recent draft picks, and relief pitchers aside, yes.


I specified guys in the "upper minors" there for that reason.

Missed that. Yes, I agree with you then.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:12 am 
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With Amed and Dom in the majors, it seems like the most interesting thing we have to follow in the minors are a few RPs... kind of sad and worrying


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:14 am 
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Laxin wrote:
With Amed and Dom in the majors, it seems like the most interesting thing we have to follow in the minors are a few RPs... kind of sad and worrying


Jayce Boyd's been hot recently.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:17 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
Here is the thread but again my position has been portrayed incorrectly. I said

Guillorme is out hitting Thompson and is a year younger. He's been horrendous. If an 11 game stretch where he's hitting .343 with 1 walk makes up for a a .718 OPS on the season and .647 OPS in July then you have very low standards. He's 24 later this month and plays an offensive position. Not even his vaunted power has been particularly impressive. 11 homers, 31 players in the EL have more, .402 slugging = 34th. No need to "sorry Metro". He's been awful for a "starting 3b prospect". Fact, not opinion.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44560&hilit=Thompson&start=12


What are you referring to that was incorrect? You have called him a non-prospect in the past and seemed to affirm that view, if not using those words directly in this thread. LTK followed that by responding thusly:

Quote:
He's NOT a non prospect.


LTK did (in this thread) suggest that Thompson only "might see the majors" next year. But my point is even that seems like a big leap for someone he had to defend from being a "non-prospect."

I don't really understand the qualifier, "for a starting 3B prospect." You think anyone is really a prospect at a corner spot who doesn't project as a starter? Not sure why the need to split this hair. If he's not a starting prospect then he's not a prospect at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:21 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
Here is the thread but again my position has been portrayed incorrectly. I said

Guillorme is out hitting Thompson and is a year younger. He's been horrendous. If an 11 game stretch where he's hitting .343 with 1 walk makes up for a a .718 OPS on the season and .647 OPS in July then you have very low standards. He's 24 later this month and plays an offensive position. Not even his vaunted power has been particularly impressive. 11 homers, 31 players in the EL have more, .402 slugging = 34th. No need to "sorry Metro". He's been awful for a "starting 3b prospect". Fact, not opinion.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44560&hilit=Thompson&start=12


What are you referring to that was incorrect? You have called him a non-prospect in the past and seemed to affirm that view, if not using those words directly in this thread. LTK followed that by responding thusly:

Quote:
He's NOT a non prospect.


LTK did (in this thread) suggest that Thompson only "might see the majors" next year. But my point is even that seems like a big leap for someone he had to defend from being a "non-prospect."


As a starting MLB 3b, no I don't view him as a "prospect". I didn't view Eric Campbell as a prospect either. A "non-prospect" can still see time in the majors or be a 24th-25th man. Matt Reynolds has played 84 MLB games, I suspect he eventually sees some more, would I be "wrong" if I said I never viewed him as a prospect? I don't believe the Mets have a starting 3b in the system (*Vientos isn't on my MLB radar at the moment) who currently plays 3b and I stick by that. Could Thompson see MLB time? Of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:26 am 
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100% looking for clarity and not being snarky. In 2014 Cesar Puello was #5 on the NYFS list. I openly railed against him and didn't believe in him as a prospect. He was recently called up. If Puello plays 40-50 non-descript MLB games would I be wrong calling him a non-prospect because he played in the bigs? If Nimmo ends up an MLB 5th OF was I "wrong" to not view him as a big prospect if he settles into a multi-year career in this role? Thompson is already in AA and the Mets have nothing at 3b blocking him so he SHOULD see an MLB game. Do I think he's a starting MLB 3b ie an 2+ fWAR regular at the position. No I do not and thus a "non-prospect" in that context yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:26 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:

As a starting MLB 3b, no I don't view him as a "prospect". I didn't view Eric Campbell as a prospect either. A "non-prospect" can still see time in the majors or be a 24th-25th man. Matt Reynolds has played 84 MLB games, I suspect he eventually sees some more, would I be "wrong" if I said I never viewed him as a prospect? I don't believe the Mets have a starting 3b in the system (*Vientos isn't on my MLB radar at the moment) who currently plays 3b and I stick by that. Could Thompson see MLB time? Of course.


And none of this is unreasonable. However, I don't follow the view (not yours) that we cannot move anyone that could potentially see the majors in the near future, esp when talking ostensibly about a fringe role.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:26 am 
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Speaking of NYFS favorites I never bought into... uh... Tapia misses bats now? https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... pia-001dom

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:34 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
100% looking for clarity and not being snarky. In 2014 Cesar Puello was #5 on the NYFS list. I openly railed against him and didn't believe in him as a prospect. He was recently called up. If Puello plays 40-50 non-descript MLB games would I be wrong calling him a non-prospect because he played in the bigs? If Nimmo ends up an MLB 5th OF was I "wrong" to not view him as a big prospect if he settles into a multi-year career in this role? Thompson is already in AA and the Mets have nothing at 3b blocking him so he SHOULD see an MLB game. Do I think he's a starting MLB 3b ie an 2+ fWAR regular at the position. No I do not and thus a "non-prospect" in that context yes.

I think prospects are those who project to be starting ML players. If a player falls into a back up role for a while, I don't think that makes anyone "right" or "wrong" about his previous status. Lots of players get cups of coffee for one reason or another. But this wasn't the conversation, so I have no intention of going any deeper into this rabbit hole.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:39 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
100% looking for clarity and not being snarky. In 2014 Cesar Puello was #5 on the NYFS list. I openly railed against him and didn't believe in him as a prospect. He was recently called up. If Puello plays 40-50 non-descript MLB games would I be wrong calling him a non-prospect because he played in the bigs? If Nimmo ends up an MLB 5th OF was I "wrong" to not view him as a big prospect if he settles into a multi-year career in this role? Thompson is already in AA and the Mets have nothing at 3b blocking him so he SHOULD see an MLB game. Do I think he's a starting MLB 3b ie an 2+ fWAR regular at the position. No I do not and thus a "non-prospect" in that context yes.

I think prospects are those who project to be starting ML players. If a player falls into a back up role for a while, I don't think that makes anyone "right" or "wrong" about his previous status. Lots of players get cups of coffee for one reason or another. But this wasn't the conversation, so I have no intention of going any deeper into this rabbit hole.



Okay so if the baseline for prospect is starter than no I don't view Thompson as a prospect. I do think he likely sees the majors.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:49 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:

And none of this is unreasonable. However, I don't follow the view (not yours) that we cannot move anyone that could potentially see the majors in the near future, esp when talking ostensibly about a fringe role.


I was the one who said it makes no sense to move him and it's cause, what's he going to get back?

If you want to trade TJ - fine. TJ and Wilmer are quite similar.

If you want to trade Cecchini - fine. We have lots of 2nd basemen.

DT's trade value, right now is about the same as Cespedes' trade value. He's a throw in for a relatively minor acquisition. He's also our closest 3rd base prospect and we could use a 3rd baseman. You can't get back enough of value where it makes sense to trade him. That doesn't mean "can't trade him", if another team overpays I'd trade anybody. I'm saying what he's likely to get back in trade, it makes more sense to keep him.

But I never said "cannot trade him", I said it doesn't make sense to trade him for the reasons above - low value and he's a guy we could actually maybe use next year and in 2019. (unless we include him in a swap for a 3rd baseman in which case - that's A'OK).

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/15/17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:48 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:

And none of this is unreasonable. However, I don't follow the view (not yours) that we cannot move anyone that could potentially see the majors in the near future, esp when talking ostensibly about a fringe role.


I was the one who said it makes no sense to move him and it's cause, what's he going to get back?

If you want to trade TJ - fine. TJ and Wilmer are quite similar.

If you want to trade Cecchini - fine. We have lots of 2nd basemen.

DT's trade value, right now is about the same as Cespedes' trade value. He's a throw in for a relatively minor acquisition. He's also our closest 3rd base prospect and we could use a 3rd baseman. You can't get back enough of value where it makes sense to trade him. That doesn't mean "can't trade him", if another team overpays I'd trade anybody. I'm saying what he's likely to get back in trade, it makes more sense to keep him.

But I never said "cannot trade him", I said it doesn't make sense to trade him for the reasons above - low value and he's a guy we could actually maybe use next year and in 2019. (unless we include him in a swap for a 3rd baseman in which case - that's A'OK).

Sure you did. I just paraphrased. Specifically you said this:
Quote:
I don't get that at all.

Thompson's a guy who might see majors next year. He might play some 3rd base for us and you don't trade away what you need and Thompson has a shot at being something we need next year.


I never suggested David freakin Thompson was going to bring back something valuable in a straight up deal. I said, "he's someone who could be tossed into a deal this winter." I said that on the perception of value being #25 on mlb.com's Mets prospect list.

I just thought you went a little over the top for a guy some think is a fringy prospect at best. But this topic has now been beaten a cruel death and should be put out of its misery. :D


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