MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:21 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
ilikeike29 wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:


Depends who the GM was. I don't see why it's some sort of "lock" that Jason MacLoed or Kantrovitz are fully unable to impress Jeff enough to do a good job without him being "more" involved. If we "need" Sandy here then we are sunk anyway right? Sandy is 70 he's not going to be here for 4-5 more seasons.

I think the Mets are sunk once Sandy leaves, yes. Having some controllable young talent helps (Conforto, Thor, Rosario, Dom) but the overall future is not super rosy.

And you'd hope they'd be impressed but none of these guys will be Marines who have won World Series as front men and we're given to them to the same commissioner giving them interest free loans.


This all remains to be seen prob sooner than later bc he's prob not going to run the baseball op more than another 2 yrs I's guess. However he could remain in an exec role and effectively be a buffer to run interference for a new GM that he "helps select." So in that way he can put his stamp on what happens after he steps down from the day to day...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:23 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
ilikeike29 wrote:

On the deadline as a whole, maybe ownership stopped him from selling off non-rental pieces. I honestly don't know the answer here but it wouldn't shock me either way.


I can't imagine that would have anything at all to do with the owner, or why Sandy would accept being a puppet for Elroy, if that were the case. Seems pretty farfetched to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:26 pm 
User avatar
Online
General Manager

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 7210
A perfect example of ownership meddling is the 2011 deadline. Any other organization in our position would have unloaded Reyes. We held on to him because of fan pressure and perception about ownership at the time (right after Madoff).

_________________
Escaped from Elba.
Original drummer for the Wilpons Are Cheap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:26 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
Another perspective to think of here.

For most of the past couple decades, from the start of Moneyball until like last year, there was always at least a FO or two that was incredibly behind on analytics and just had a really dumb GM. Most recently, we had the likes of Ruben Amaro Jr. and Dave Stewart.

Now, finally, every team is relatively smart. Every team has an analytics department and no team is having a RAJ type running the show.

As a result, the "dumb" or most dysfunctional organizations are not the ones with the bad GMs or lack of analytics anymore. Now it's the organizations with excessively cheap, meddling, or restrictive. So despite having some smart people in their FO and a fine GM, the "worst" organization in baseball is the Orioles. And the Mets aren't far enough behind.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:28 pm 
User avatar
Online
General Manager

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 7210
HeyNowHK wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:

On the deadline as a whole, maybe ownership stopped him from selling off non-rental pieces. I honestly don't know the answer here but it wouldn't shock me either way.


I can't imagine that would have anything at all to do with the owner, or why Sandy would accept being a puppet for Elroy, if that were the case. Seems pretty farfetched to me.


Is it? They are trying to keep up appearances that this is only a blip and they're definitely going to compete next year. Trading off non-rental players causes fan consternation which the Wilpons loathe.

_________________
Escaped from Elba.
Original drummer for the Wilpons Are Cheap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:32 pm 
User avatar
Online
General Manager

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 7210
ilikeike29 wrote:
Another perspective to think of here.

For most of the past couple decades, from the start of Moneyball until like last year, there was always at least a FO or two that was incredibly behind on analytics and just had a really dumb GM. Most recently, we had the likes of Ruben Amaro Jr. and Dave Stewart.

Now, finally, every team is relatively smart. Every team has an analytics department and no team is having a RAJ type running the show.

As a result, the "dumb" or most dysfunctional organizations are not the ones with the bad GMs or lack of analytics anymore. Now it's the organizations with excessively cheap, meddling, or restrictive. So despite having some smart people in their FO and a fine GM, the "worst" organization in baseball is the Orioles. And the Mets aren't far enough behind.


Orioles are a prefect example. They literally sell off their international pool money because their owner doesn't believe in it that market.

With the Mets, its always been staying within the lines on international bonuses and never going after the top foreign FA talent. It puts them at an extreme disadvantage. Hell, they never go after the top US talent in free agency either.

_________________
Escaped from Elba.
Original drummer for the Wilpons Are Cheap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:32 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
Ralf wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:

On the deadline as a whole, maybe ownership stopped him from selling off non-rental pieces. I honestly don't know the answer here but it wouldn't shock me either way.


I can't imagine that would have anything at all to do with the owner, or why Sandy would accept being a puppet for Elroy, if that were the case. Seems pretty farfetched to me.


Is it? They are trying to keep up appearances that this is only a blip and they're definitely going to compete next year. Trading off non-rental players causes fan consternation which the Wilpons loathe.

I know this is what we're here for, but the over-analyzing is funny. How do you know what the Pons loathe aside from empty seats? Just curious.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:37 pm 
User avatar
Online
General Manager

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 7210
HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Is it? They are trying to keep up appearances that this is only a blip and they're definitely going to compete next year. Trading off non-rental players causes fan consternation which the Wilpons loathe.

I know this is what we're here for, but the over-analyzing is funny. How do you know what the Pons loathe aside from empty seats? Just curious.


I mean, how long have you been a Mets fan? This is not some secret that Mets ownership is extremely sensitive about how they and the organization are perceived. There was literally an article this week (Sherman?) quoting a Mets official saying (paraphrasing) its unfair how they are perceived.

_________________
Escaped from Elba.
Original drummer for the Wilpons Are Cheap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:49 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
ilikeike29 wrote:

As a result, the "dumb" or most dysfunctional organizations are not the ones with the bad GMs or lack of analytics anymore. Now it's the organizations with excessively cheap, meddling, or restrictive. So despite having some smart people in their FO and a fine GM, the "worst" organization in baseball is the Orioles. And the Mets aren't far enough behind.


Meh. Let's not forget that just a few years ago, the whole internet regularly laughed at how dumb Dayton Moore was. These things aren't always as simplistic as the 10 cent analysis that some break everything down to. A year and a half ago, Alderson was being celebrated for his feat in turning around the Mets... this idea that when things are going right, Alderson gets the credit for his genius in turning around a dire situation, but when things go awry the blame always goes to the owners is just a silly lapse in logic.

Every FO has to work within the structure of their franchise, including personnel and owners. And let's not be naive to assume every other owner is great and only ours are awful people. It is what it is and that is not to defend the Pons... but by and large this GM runs the baseball operation. Let's just put it this way: we should be able to agree that somewhere from 50% to 80% of the long term results of any franchise come directly from their scouting, drafting and developmental system. Does anyone think the owners are really a deterrence in any of those areas? Did the Pons make the Mets draft Gavin Cecchini instead of Corey Seager? Are the Pons involved in running the dev process at the complex?

There is meddling, and then there is the real operation that is responsible for the majority of what results on the field. I don't think we should confuse one for the other. And whether there is some "meddling" occurring it's hard to know what that actually is. However I don't think it's fair to suggest that but look the other way on how poorly the FO managed the day to day roster moves. It actually looked like it was handled by an intern this season. Wait, maybe that was Jeff's meddling..?? :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:51 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
Ralf wrote:

Orioles are a prefect example. They literally sell off their international pool money because their owner doesn't believe in it that market.



How do you know this has anything to do with their owner?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:59 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 21083
Location: NYC
Ralf wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Is it? They are trying to keep up appearances that this is only a blip and they're definitely going to compete next year. Trading off non-rental players causes fan consternation which the Wilpons loathe.

I know this is what we're here for, but the over-analyzing is funny. How do you know what the Pons loathe aside from empty seats? Just curious.


I mean, how long have you been a Mets fan? This is not some secret that Mets ownership is extremely sensitive about how they and the organization are perceived. There was literally an article this week (Sherman?) quoting a Mets official saying (paraphrasing) its unfair how they are perceived.


Do you really think that Sandy Alderson would have accepted being the front man for the type of dog and pony show that you are suggesting? Do you really think that Sandy wanted to shake things up with deals of controllable players but Jeff Wilpon put the kibosh on that? Is this what you're saying?? Think about it for a second please.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: It is time to say goodbye to Sandy Alderson
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:17 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 59186
Why is Sandy a HOF executive?

His personal biography is impressive as hell but his actual baseball successes have been fleeting. Unless he goes in for his accomplishments in the commisioners office (if that's what you're saying).


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], HeyNowHK, Hilltop, Joefrompgh, Laxin, LTKfRGM, MarkJohnson>You, Metro2007, Munky00, ndfordarling, northway, Ralf, SNESandMets and 107 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


SUPPORT NYFS VIA OUR NETWORK OF SITES: FIND AN AA MEETING | FIND A JOB NEAR YOU | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | HOME REPAIR CONTRACTOR BUILDER AC HEAT | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT AND RESOURCES | THE SOULCIALISTS LIVE LOCAL PIANO MUSIC TREASURE COAST | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT NEAR YOU | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GOLF BEACH RESORT HOTELS RESTAURANTS BED BREAKFAST | HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | METRO BUS TRAIN SUBWAY AIRPORT HELIPORT | VETERAN TIPS CRAFT DIY RECIPES | ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS NEAR YOU | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL HEALTHY HEART DIABETIC RESTAURANTS AND STORES | CHURCH TEMPLE MOSQUE OR PLACE OF WORSHIP NEAR YOU | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB | SUICIDE HOTLINE DANIELLE COLBERT PHOTO MUG SHOT | © Untraditional Media

The%20Soulcialists