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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:55 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
***I love GKR*** BUT... they routinely have their own agendas. Keith used to routinely rip into Reyes for not running out routine ground balls/popups when "most" players are not running hard on these 162 games per year. I clearly remember a game (this was during Reyes first run here) where Keith laid into him, Wright hits a weak popup... jogs to first... nothing. They have guys they like and guys they don't like. I'm not even "defending" Cespedes but they selectively knock guys and it's not always based on reality.


Ok, but is it based on reality with Cespedes in 2017 in your opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:58 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Talk about unfair... this whole post is unfair. Anyone can drop a fly ball. Doesn't mean he's dogging it. Just last week Yo beat out 2 IF hits in the same game. I don't recall if you mentioned his effort there. Post like this shows some pretty deep animus that seems unsupported IMO.


Wow, like you I guess, I truly don't get it. And not just from you but from - seemingly -
most of this board. I know I can't get political but, whatever your beliefs, it's like watching a certain President and seeing two completely different things.

First of all, it's not just dropping the fly ball. It's not making any effort to catch catchable balls on the fly (in the same game and others).

Seriously now ... people truly don't see how little he hustles? How infrequently he runs out of the box on anything that's not a potential infield hit? How recently he sometimes barely leaves the box and then does less than jog? How he makes half-assed attempts at many balls in the field? How he slow jogs after balls past him? How he did similar things even in the World Series? How he refuses to play right field?

Serious question, are you still watching the games? It's understandable if you're not but then at least your post would make more sense to me.

As a side note, looked up the famous Reggie Jackson / Billy Martin right field incident the other day. Reggie's "laziness" paled in comparison to what La Anti-Granderson does every day.

BTW, we're supposed to post to call out running hard on potential IF hits as if that's not the default?

This guy is stealing money from each of you and few seem to care. It's odd to say the least.

I think this reaction is just a wee bit over the top, especially considering that it's about a guy who has +34 DRS in LF over his 6 seasons. The guy knows which balls he can get to and which ones he can't and I'd rather him keep a ball in front of him than go for some meaningless "effort points" to dive and end up with a ball getting behind him and extra bases... on top of the risk to his health by doing so.

And yeah, I don't see anything wrong with praising a guy for busting it and beating out a couple of IF hits in a meaningless game in late August. Do you think every player busts it down the line on every groundball hit? In a perfect world they would, but we know that doesn't happen.

So I'm not really sure why this guy has become the latest target of animus and I wouldn't venture to speculate as to why. It's been a lost season so tensions do get a little out of hand so there is that...

oh and btw I certainly do watch a lot of games and was at the game on Saturday. I wasn't able to see yesterday's game but I did see the clip of the ball he dropped. Not a big deal to me... happens once a year.


Well the cynic would say he's only busting it down the line to improve his batting average since he's loafed everywhere else.

I do think there's something to be said for him being bored in a bad season, maybe being tentative because of his injuries and the fact this is already a lost season anyway so it's not like his loafing could be the difference between a pennant or not a la Reyes in 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:01 am 
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I know this is from perma-curmudgeon Mushnick but it was written before the situation deteriorated further, in my opinion: http://nypost.com/2017/06/29/terry-collins-indulges-yoenis-cespedes-at-expense-of-dignity/


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 am 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
***I love GKR*** BUT... they routinely have their own agendas. Keith used to routinely rip into Reyes for not running out routine ground balls/popups when "most" players are not running hard on these 162 games per year. I clearly remember a game (this was during Reyes first run here) where Keith laid into him, Wright hits a weak popup... jogs to first... nothing. They have guys they like and guys they don't like. I'm not even "defending" Cespedes but they selectively knock guys and it's not always based on reality.


Ok, but is it based on reality with Cespedes in 2017 in your opinion?



No, I certainly think Cespedes is one of those players that picks and chooses when to give full effort and that is certainly worth critiquing. I just think when it comes to the booth they are very inconsistent (and I say that as an avid fan of all 3)

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:47 am 
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If it's a matter of my $110 million man with leg problems not running out a routine pop fly or not diving for a ball in the outfield, I'll take it, especially in a lost season. I'm not necessarily excusing it, but I would prefer he is healthy next season than having these ticky tack injuries non-stop. If he is fully healthy and not going all out, then I'll have an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:56 am 
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Hilltop wrote:
If it's a matter of my $110 million man with leg problems not running out a routine pop fly or not diving for a ball in the outfield, I'll take it, especially in a lost season. I'm not necessarily excusing it, but I would prefer he is healthy next season than having these ticky tack injuries non-stop. If he is fully healthy and not going all out, then I'll have an issue.


I believe this has been going on since 2015 (and likely with other teams) but I understand others beg to differ.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
***I love GKR*** BUT... they routinely have their own agendas. Keith used to routinely rip into Reyes for not running out routine ground balls/popups when "most" players are not running hard on these 162 games per year. I clearly remember a game (this was during Reyes first run here) where Keith laid into him, Wright hits a weak popup... jogs to first... nothing. They have guys they like and guys they don't like. I'm not even "defending" Cespedes but they selectively knock guys and it's not always based on reality.


This is all true but everyone loves GKR so much they can see no wrong in them.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:05 pm 
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dragonfly wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
***I love GKR*** BUT... they routinely have their own agendas. Keith used to routinely rip into Reyes for not running out routine ground balls/popups when "most" players are not running hard on these 162 games per year. I clearly remember a game (this was during Reyes first run here) where Keith laid into him, Wright hits a weak popup... jogs to first... nothing. They have guys they like and guys they don't like. I'm not even "defending" Cespedes but they selectively knock guys and it's not always based on reality.


This is all true but everyone loves GKR so much they can see no wrong in them.


Not saying this can't be true but I also think, particularly when it come to not hustling, they only call it out when it's a consistent issue for a player. For Wright, I think most everyone will agree, not-hustling was (is?) a rarity. And while I can't really remember Reyes' first tenure in terms of hustle, even in 2017, when you'd think that's the last thing someone is his tenuous position would do, he often barely runs out of the box on routine-ish plays.

Even with Cespedes, they've ignored it many more times than they've called it out (Mushnick wrote about that, too: http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/keith-hernandezs-refusal-to-criticize-cespedes-just-absurd/). I think they wait until it's impossible to ignore (and even then tread gingerly and clearly pull punches).


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:27 pm 
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This has gotten pretty tedious.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:41 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Hilltop wrote:
If it's a matter of my $110 million man with leg problems not running out a routine pop fly or not diving for a ball in the outfield, I'll take it, especially in a lost season. I'm not necessarily excusing it, but I would prefer he is healthy next season than having these ticky tack injuries non-stop. If he is fully healthy and not going all out, then I'll have an issue.


I believe this has been going on since 2015 (and likely with other teams) but I understand others beg to differ.


162 games is a very long season, not to mention all of the ST games. It's nice in theory to expect these guys to go 100% effort, 100% of the time, but from a practical standpoint, I do not think it is reasonable. I expect these guys to know when to push their bodies and when to hold back a little.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Hustling is not 100% good all the time. I understand we all like to see it and appreciate it, but balancing a long season and a lost season against giving effort is important for players. I think David Wright may not have managed this very well and his current injury situation might be at least partially related.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 8/20/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:50 pm 
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hotlyds87 wrote:
Hustling is not 100% good all the time. I understand we all like to see it and appreciate it, but balancing a long season and a lost season against giving effort is important for players. I think David Wright may not have managed this very well and his current injury situation might be at least partially related.


Agreed re Wright. But there's a difference between what you guys are describing (judicious effort in deference to #worldslongestlastingleginjury) and what I'm seeing (#totaleclipseoftheheart a/k/a reality). Cue the "Cespedes dogs it / bad contract" thread a year from now (unless he hits 35 HRs and then the fact that the fact that you're rooting for a guy who doesn't have enough respect for you to make a real effort is forgiven).

Tedious I remain,

Serge


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