MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:37 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 12311
Does WAR get calculated in relevance to the position a player plays?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:40 am 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
Positional value is a component


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:42 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 12311
ilikeike29 wrote:
Positional value is a component


Thanks. Is there a component that weighs more heavily on the WAR calculation?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:10 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
Steve The Original wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
Positional value is a component


Thanks. Is there a component that weighs more heavily on the WAR calculation?

In not sure what you mean but it's basically

+xx runs if you're a SS
+x runs if you're a 2B
-x runs if you're a LF
-xx runs if you're a 1B


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:16 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am
Posts: 10113
ilikeike29 wrote:
Steve The Original wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
Positional value is a component


Thanks. Is there a component that weighs more heavily on the WAR calculation?

In not sure what you mean but it's basically

+xx runs if you're a SS
+x runs if you're a 2B
-x runs if you're a LF
-xx runs if you're a 1B


Thats the defensive component, but what about for offense? Would an .800 OPS catcher have more offensive WAR than an .800 OPS 1B with the same T-bats due to the average level of production at the position?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:25 pm 
User avatar
Online
Everyday Player

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm
Posts: 1175
thebull wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
Steve The Original wrote:
In not sure what you mean but it's basically

+xx runs if you're a SS
+x runs if you're a 2B
-x runs if you're a LF
-xx runs if you're a 1B


Thats the defensive component, but what about for offense? Would an .800 OPS catcher have more offensive WAR than an .800 OPS 1B with the same T-bats due to the average level of production at the position?


They should, because WAR is adjusted to the competition at your position.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:42 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
Quote:
Thats the defensive component, but what about for offense? Would an .800 OPS catcher have more offensive WAR than an .800 OPS 1B with the same T-bats due to the average level of production at the position?

It all adds up. Regardless of where you want to attribute that addition/subtraction it ends up the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:01 am 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 59348
thebull wrote:
Thats the defensive component, but what about for offense? Would an .800 OPS catcher have more offensive WAR than an .800 OPS 1B with the same T-bats due to the average level of production at the position?


FG makes it a part of the "defensive component" but its really its own component altogether. You get offensive runs +/- defensive runs +/- baserunning runs, then that gets adjusted by the proper attribution of positional value based on where a guy played (FG lists out the 160 game values for each spot, so if a guy plays multiple spots they get that proportional adjustment as a fraction of the 160 game total), which all adds up to your runs added or, occasionally, subtracted), which then gets compared to the hypothetical "replacement level" of runs added, to get your runs added over replacement, and runs then get converted into wins.

So to answer your question - yes, in the ultimate calc, an otherwise equivalent production from a C would be worth more than that from a 1B because the components would otherwise be the same but the catcher gets the more favorable positional adjustment. Of course if there are other factors - the catcher is absolutely atrocious defensively, and the 1B is a guy who adds significant defensive value there - you don't just get awarded blind points for standing at a spot. It all has to work together.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:46 pm 
Offline
Prospect

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:56 pm
Posts: 275
Another WAR question. According to Fangraph every 1B in the majors is a negative in defensive war. How is that possible?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:29 am 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
69FOREVER wrote:
Another WAR question. According to Fangraph every 1B in the majors is a negative in defensive war. How is that possible?

Because no player is prime Keith Hernandez in that their amazing glove at first base carried the profile enough to outweigh the fact that they're playing first base.

I don't like that FG throws positional value under "defense" since it is in many ways a separate entity. You can be a plus first baseman but the fact that you're a first baseman still puts more pressure on your bat than the average MLB player.

Keith had less pressure on his bat than pretty much any other 1B ever but it's still more pressure than a solid fielding SS would have. If Keith would have hit like Jordy Mercer (an adequate MLB SS), he would have been out of baseball pretty quickly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:52 am 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Staff

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:37 am
Posts: 23379
Location: charleston, sc
It's because the things Firat basemen do don't show up in stats...scoops of bad throws, repositioning to carry errant side throws, making cut offs and relays, etc...they basically get putouts, and any errors make it a negative net.

_________________
"The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." Steven Biko


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAR question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:03 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:52 pm
Posts: 9255
jdawginsc wrote:
It's because the things Firat basemen do don't show up in stats...scoops of bad throws, repositioning to carry errant side throws, making cut offs and relays, etc...they basically get putouts, and any errors make it a negative net.

That has nothing to do with positional value. That just means the defensive metrics are shoddy, which they are. We're talking like 2003 logic here.

The offensive bar there is extraordinarily high which is why the positional adjustment is so significant.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Daaaarryyl, dragonfly, Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], HeyNowHK, Joefrompgh, luciferase, MarkJohnson>You, Metsfan980, MookieWouldaBeatIt, Munky00, ndfordarling, Ralf, RedStorm, scottydont, SergioTheLittleMan, Spacetraveler, Yahoo [Bot], yalikeMetroplitans and 144 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


SUPPORT NYFS VIA OUR NETWORK OF SITES: FIND AN AA MEETING | FIND A JOB NEAR YOU | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | HOME REPAIR CONTRACTOR BUILDER AC HEAT | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT AND RESOURCES | THE SOULCIALISTS LIVE LOCAL PIANO MUSIC TREASURE COAST | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT NEAR YOU | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GOLF BEACH RESORT HOTELS RESTAURANTS BED BREAKFAST | HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | METRO BUS TRAIN SUBWAY AIRPORT HELIPORT | VETERAN TIPS CRAFT DIY RECIPES | ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS NEAR YOU | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL HEALTHY HEART DIABETIC RESTAURANTS AND STORES | CHURCH TEMPLE MOSQUE OR PLACE OF WORSHIP NEAR YOU | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB | SUICIDE HOTLINE DANIELLE COLBERT PHOTO MUG SHOT | © Untraditional Media

The%20Soulcialists