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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:44 am 
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ilikeike29 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
I think Guillorme has a shot to be a starter. Most likely he's Darwin Barney but still that's something. He's a better prospect than Oswalt.

Hits everything on the ground. Has like 3 XBHs in his life. That's not a ML starter profile. He's a 25th man *possibly*. You don't protect a 25th man over a possible 5th SPer. In any case, it's not a profile that any team is poaching.

Meanwhile, nice 9th inning rally but falls short.

Darwin Barney just played his 786th career game today. And there's a decent chance Guillorme has a better hit tool here.


Paraphrasing, 'I know Darwin Barney, and Luis Guillorme is no Darwin Barney.'

I kid but only partially. Even if we're talking about an elite defensive SS, the scouting was a lot more great hands then uber range. Still, an all-glove no-bat MIer is only a fringy starter on a 2nd division team *at best*. But I don't think we're even talking about Jose Iglesias defense (and that's best case scenario outcome, no?) All these no bat MIers eventually go away is the point, as we'll see the Tigers move on from Iglesias this winter.

Darwin Barney would be loathed here, same as Ruben Tejada was loathed. Yes, I know Ruben Tejada played a while here but that was solely bc there was no one else at the time. In any case, it's prob more Ryan Goins than Darwin Barney, but to-mayto, to-mah-to.

So really, I don't understand the thought process of having to protect someone who projects as a UT IFer if it all comes together.

Funny thing about this is seeing the advocacy for an all-glove one dimensional player, while at the same time advocating for an all-bat one dimensional player (Flores). Yes, I know value is value but I'd prefer to see the team promote players that have a chance at having more balanced (multi-tool) value and yeah that might mean McNeil or Evans.

This Guillorme thing is starting to sound a lot like the Becerra thing from a year ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 am 
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Tejada was liked in 2011 and 2012 and he wrestled the starting SS job from Wilmer in 2015, so it's not entirely true that he was always hated. He had his moments. The problem with Tejada was that he had a small, unathletic body. He had a solid arm, OK glove and he worked the count, but no strength. Guillorme is way more athletic than Tejada and he's got better instincts in the field, which translates into better range. He's also got crazy good hands, unlike Errors Tejada. I think his upside is a bit higher than Tejada and hopefully he won't peak at 22 like Tejada did.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:26 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Anyone know how excited we should be about Juan Uriarte?


He was talked up a bit post 2015, rough 2016 but even then I posted 10/2016

"Juan Uriarte (not giving up the ghost on him yet. 18 years old, 40% CS)"

BA liked him as well

"They should have another quality catching prospect making his way to the United States this year in Uriarte, whom the Mets signed from the Mexico City Red Devils shortly after July 2 in 2014. Uriarte isn’t quite as refined with his receiving as Sanchez, but he has a plus arm and projects to stay behind the plate. While he’s not a pure hitter, he has a good combination of plate discipline and power for a catcher. He controls the strike zone and uses the middle of the field, though he can get too pull-minded. He’s strong and takes an aggressive swing, hitting the ball with good exit speed off the bat and a chance for 15-plus home runs in his prime."


To play the counter argument, Becerra, Lupo and Milton Ramos all hit in Kingsport. I'd like to see how his bat looks next year before I jump on the bandwagon, but . . . 3rd best catcher prospect is certainly possible. I agree with you on Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am 
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Life is just too short to spend 3 months agonizing over the possibility of losing Luis Guillorme.


8)

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8)


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:39 am 
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R Nitelight wrote:
Life is just too short to spend 3 months agonizing over the possibility of losing Luis Guillorme.


8)


You don't know some of us very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:48 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Anyone know how excited we should be about Juan Uriarte?


He was talked up a bit post 2015, rough 2016 but even then I posted 10/2016

"Juan Uriarte (not giving up the ghost on him yet. 18 years old, 40% CS)"

BA liked him as well

"They should have another quality catching prospect making his way to the United States this year in Uriarte, whom the Mets signed from the Mexico City Red Devils shortly after July 2 in 2014. Uriarte isn’t quite as refined with his receiving as Sanchez, but he has a plus arm and projects to stay behind the plate. While he’s not a pure hitter, he has a good combination of plate discipline and power for a catcher. He controls the strike zone and uses the middle of the field, though he can get too pull-minded. He’s strong and takes an aggressive swing, hitting the ball with good exit speed off the bat and a chance for 15-plus home runs in his prime."


To play the counter argument, Becerra, Lupo and Milton Ramos all hit in Kingsport. I'd like to see how his bat looks next year before I jump on the bandwagon, but . . . 3rd best catcher prospect is certainly possible. I agree with you on Sanchez.



Oh Uriarte may be a total NP. But solid season at a young age with positive previous reports already puts him high on the C don't you think? I'm sure there are some who prefer Mazeika to Nido and vice versa but I have a hard time coming up with a superior "3rd" best C prospect than Uriarte. They didn't sign Duce, I don't know much about Kidwell but he's been horrid and was a 36th round pick so at this juncture I can't imagine any argument for him ahead of Uriarte, Rizzie was the only C they added in 2016 (he's been terrible), in fact our #4 best C prospect might be Astudillo (mostly thanks to not having ANYONE) else, though I guess you'd have to still rank Sanchez #4 until further notice.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:57 am 
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Metro2007 wrote:
Oh Uriarte may be a total NP. But solid season at a young age with positive previous reports already puts him high on the C don't you think? I'm sure there are some who prefer Mazeika to Nido and vice versa but I have a hard time coming up with a superior "3rd" best C prospect than Uriarte. They didn't sign Duce, I don't know much about Kidwell but he's been horrid and was a 36th round pick so at this juncture I can't imagine any argument for him ahead of Uriarte, Rizzie was the only C they added in 2016 (he's been terrible), in fact our #4 best C prospect might be Astudillo (mostly thanks to not having ANYONE) else, though I guess you'd have to still rank Sanchez #4 until further notice.


3 catchers taken right behind Quinn Brodey in the 3rd rd this year have gotten off to strong starts, one of whom I was openly lobbying for (Matt Whatley).


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:01 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Guillorme is way more athletic than Tejada and he's got better instincts in the field


I'm not sure either of these claims is accurate. Guillorme is much stockier than Tejada and that's ultimately going to manifest into less athleticism. As to instincts, we'll have to see on that one. I don't think RT's instincts were a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:22 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Guillorme is way more athletic than Tejada and he's got better instincts in the field


I'm not sure either of these claims is accurate. Guillorme is much stockier than Tejada and that's ultimately going to manifest into less athleticism. As to instincts, we'll have to see on that one. I don't think RT's instincts were a problem.


Tejada was chubby by the time he was 25. He was the only met who had no interest showing up to camp early. Guillorme, by comparison, is a work-horse. That's one of the things the mets like about him. He also caught a bat one handed in a ridiculous highlight real.

Even if he's got Tejada's bat, he'll work harder, he's got better hands, and better range (because if a quicker first step). The only way he doesn't turn into something is if he hits like 26 year old Tejada. If he hits like 22 year old Tejada, he's a nice guy to have on the roster and he should have a solid career.

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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:28 am 
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You carry Guillorme if you're dumping some combination of Reynolds, Cecchini, Rivera, not bringing back Reyes or Cabrera, etc. Otherwise you're just clogging up the 40 man with too many role players.

To be clear, I would probably clear out guys like Reynolds and roll with Guillorme. But I just don't think you need to worry much about a 40 man roster including multiple iterations of a no bat backup infielder.

Ditto Corey Oswalt on a 40 man roster that includes Flexen, Molina, Pill, Montero and a ton of other back-end at best SP types.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:36 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
You carry Guillorme if you're dumping some combination of Reynolds, Cecchini, Rivera, not bringing back Reyes or Cabrera, etc. Otherwise you're just clogging up the 40 man with too many role players.



I would assume that any of Reynolds, Cheech, TJR, Reyes or ACab getting removed from the 40 would be replaced with someone they bring in from the outside to plug into the IF; not for the purpose of adding an even fringier guy (Guillorme).

Again, tho it's not impossible that Guillorme becomes a Barney or Goins, it's not practical to protect every player who *might become* a UT player if things all work out. This really isn't the way to manage the process properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Minor League Thread: 8/27/17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:47 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Ditto Corey Oswalt on a 40 man roster that includes Flexen, Molina, Pill, Montero and a ton of other back-end at best SP types.


Pill will almost certainly be removed and Monty looks like he's out of options and so his 40 spot is saved only if he makes the 25 man active roster, which is to say that he's likely to be removed also. Bigger point is that SP depth is almost certainly a bigger need than another backup MIer.


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