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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:08 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Ralf wrote:

O come on. This is ridiculous. We literally have a perfect example of how the Wilpons operate when they remove a baseball guy and install a patsy. Those were some of the most embarrassing years this franchise has seen since 1980.


Once again, it was ONE YEAR - Jim Duquette was here for ONE YEAR. And immediately surrounding him, with the Wilpons in charge sans Doubleday, you had the Phillips and Minaya eras, which essentially mirror the Alderson era.

The idea of Sandy being the only one who can succeed here is what is ridiculous, given again, the fact that his ultimate success/failure ratio looks exactly the same as the last 2 GMs here (yes, ignoring the ONE YEAR Jim Duquette era, which took us exactly 1 year to dig out from under).

And again, nobody would argue Philips or Minaya was of the upper echelon of front office minds. So the bar isn't even that high for someone to be able to find success here. God forbid we get surprised and do get someone of that upper echelon...


I mean, you really have to have your head in the sand to not put the timeline together. The Wilpons got the full ownership from Doubleday in mid-2002, right before they fired Phillips and installed the patsy Duquette. Phillips was here DURING the Doubleday era. Omar (who btw the was employed by MLB hmmmm) was hired after the public embarrassment that ensued from the Wilpons brilliant "super scout" plans, and two prior years of mediocrity. Then again, after the embarrassment of 2007-2010 and the Madoff scandal, they were forced to again hire a respected baseball guy employed by MLB hmmmmm to take over and bring credibility back to the franchise. Its only a matter of time before they go right back to their real plan of having Jeff run baseball ops with a patsy as the face of the front office.

Maybe Ricco will do ok but there will absolutely be a greater chance of Wilpon meddling with him than someone like Sandy.

We are heading for an existence much like the Orioles had prior to Buck.

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
Disco Ball wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Built the team that saw the first WS appearance in 15 years and only 5th appearance in the organizations 50+ year history. Seems like a pretty solid legacy to me.


It was a wasteland when Sandy got here and by all appearances, will be again when he leaves. Like HK said, that's a Steve Phillips-like legacy.


Lol, talk about hyperbole.

The organization is fine. The foundation for the major league team is there. The only thing a new GM would have to do is supplement the talent on the roster.

LF Ces
RF Conforto
SS Rosario
1B Smith

SP Thor
SP deGrom

Thats a good core group. Not to mention Nimmo, TJ and Flores are good cheap complementary pieces. Very few teams have a good catcher. They just need a 3B, 2B and CF. That seems pretty easy to do IF ownership opens that mothball infested wallet.


You're making my point:
LF Ces injured
RF Conforto injured
SS Rosario
1B Smith

SP Thor injured
SP deGrom

That's 1/2 of your "core" currently on the DL with an uncertain return. deGrom has had his own bout with injuries. Smith and Rosario, as exciting as they may be, are still raw and unproven. I like Nimmo, TJ (who is BTW---injured) and Wilmer also, but they look to have a limited ceiling. Met history is littered with similar players, most of whom never won a thing here.


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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:15 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Expecting Rosario and Smith to be highly performing core pieces of a playoff team as soon as 2018 is giving in to the hype I think. And this is not to mention that 3 of the 6 players you cite will be coming off of major injuries. It's really hard to say that things are set up for success in 2018. Really hard. IMO.


Again, it all depends on ownerships commitment to supplement the core talent. A minimum $50m investment this offseason easily keeps them in the postseason picture next year. But, most likely we'll see a $25m investment after which people will complain Sandy didn't do enough because its never ownerships fault and it was always Omar's team that won anyway....

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:18 pm 
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piazzafan wrote:
You can't blame karma when you know somethings wrong and you let the player talk you out of getting an MRI. To be honest with you, if I was an owner the first purchase I would make is an X-Ray and MRI machine. Then hire a trainer who knows how to work those machines.


Cute..

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Expecting Rosario and Smith to be highly performing core pieces of a playoff team as soon as 2018 is giving in to the hype I think. And this is not to mention that 3 of the 6 players you cite will be coming off of major injuries. It's really hard to say that things are set up for success in 2018. Really hard. IMO.


Again, it all depends on ownerships commitment to supplement the core talent. A minimum $50m investment this offseason easily keeps them in the postseason picture next year. But, most likely we'll see a $25m investment after which people will complain Sandy didn't do enough because its never ownerships fault and it was always Omar's team that won anyway....

Meh. He hasn't shown the ability to spend money well either.


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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:08 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Expecting Rosario and Smith to be highly performing core pieces of a playoff team as soon as 2018 is giving in to the hype I think. And this is not to mention that 3 of the 6 players you cite will be coming off of major injuries. It's really hard to say that things are set up for success in 2018. Really hard. IMO.


Again, it all depends on ownerships commitment to supplement the core talent. A minimum $50m investment this offseason easily keeps them in the postseason picture next year. But, most likely we'll see a $25m investment after which people will complain Sandy didn't do enough because its never ownerships fault and it was always Omar's team that won anyway....

Meh. He hasn't shown the ability to spend money well either.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:24 pm 
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I think a fairer view.

1. Inability to build a franchise/organizational strategy for keeping players healthy.
2. An exceptionally good system of developing pitching...an uneven system for developing
3. A horrific history of roster management.
4. A solid legacy of trades relative to the market...very uneven philosophy of signing free agents.
5. An inability to communicate effectively, consistently and coherently.

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:37 pm 
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And speaking of Justin Turner....

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dodg ... in-turner/


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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:05 am 
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four to six months for Conforto. This will absolutely paralyze them all winter as they cross their fingers that he (and Ces, and Thor and Wright) can play.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.3458833


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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:40 pm 
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It's like we traded in years for misery for a World Series appearance

What a fall from grace


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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:59 pm 
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That world series seems like its 10 years ago. On other team's broadcasts when they mention the Mets being in the series 2 years ago it doesn't seem right. ugh

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 Post subject: Re: Injuries, the real legacy of the Alderson era?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:44 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:


Interesting article. Makes me wonder if Turner and Murph knew the ball was changed in 2015 and have adjusted accordingly. This flyball method wouldn't work nearly as well in the past IMO.


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