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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:19 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:

First, I never called you a troll (that I can recall). In fact, I've said that I hope you post more (while letting the TDA and Scooter crusades go). I meant that. But I don't know what thing you're referring to here.

You said if TDA gets an opportunity elsewhere and doesn't hit like you expect him to, it won't mean that you were wrong about him. Doesn't that mean your conclusion about him is no longer dependent on his results? And so this "confidence" diagnosis can never be disproved. That's what the above reads to me. If that's the case, why are we still discussing it?

Normally, when people make calls on players, teams or events, there are eventually results which can be lined up with the predictions. The ability to quantify most things in baseball is one of the things that prob attracts many people to this sport. Sometimes people are proved right; sometimes they are proved wrong and they move on. Sure, there are the more existential debates that drag on for generations (ie: ownership's effect on the team) and get heated, and likewise when you cite esoteric forces that work against said players, you can claim never to be wrong about such a thing and drag out the talking point into a tedious crusade if so inclined.


Thanks. MJ called me a troll earlier in this thread. I'm not looking to drag it out, in fact I almost didn't post this morning b/c I didn't want to get dragged into this again. I simply was happy to see a few posters (IIRC) recognize the confidence / "between the ears" issue w/r/to Montero and hoped some posters might recognize TDA has a similar issue, IMO.

With something as intangible as confidence, nothing can ever be "proven." I argued Conforto could hit lefties - that's tangible and can be proven. I argued TC harmed Conforto's confidence last year by sitting him against lefties, etc - I believe I was right about that but there's no way to ever prove whether I was or wasn't.

If TDA goes somewhere else and hits well, it mitigates in favor of my point. Doesn't mean I was right (except about the underlying talent which most don't disagree with). If he doesn't, it mitigates against my point. In that event, maybe I was simply wrong (certainly possible) or maybe it's because his confidence never recovered from what I view as TC's poor handling of him. No way to ever know. Certainly, if he goes somewhere else and doesn't perform, the chances that I was simply wrong are increased.

I'm truly not looking to beat a dead horse here. I agree there's no point to continually discussing it and I wasn't looking to get into it here (truly - I was supposed to work on a project from 9:30 - 12:30 Central Time and now look what I've done).


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:40 pm 
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I stopped posting on this thread when the admin asked us to stop. Just to clear up any misunderstanding for not replying to the request to do research.

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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Well, I think opening up another "confidence" case, if you will, is prob going to yield similar reactions. It's a debate/talking that's not going to go anywhere, and as someone said, could be applied to anyone you chose to crusade for. I'll try not to take the bait on this one. :D


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:27 pm 
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I hope this thread isn't closed because of this reply, which I felt compelled to make.....

"Confidence" to me are encompassing deep down thoughts that can significantly affect one's performance. What goes through someone's head can make even the most talented athlete do things differently than what comes NATURALLY. That becomes even more so when those negative thoughts are not deep down but, instead, in directly someone's head, sometimes 24/7.

Being told you have to do better or else or knowing that you are not doing well do not tend to make someone perform naturally. A pitcher may consistently try different things or even fear the batter he is facing. A hitter may approach each pitch tentatively, rather than doing his job without constant thinking cluttering his mind.

The most logical cure is success, any success, as success relieves to various degrees what negative thoughts, conscious or subconscious, is going on in one's mind.

A good baseball player is one who does his job without much thought on the mechanics. A player with confidence goes about his job using the skills he has spent many years perfecting. A player without confidence constantly challenges his skills and the results are more than not, underwhelming.

And yes, it is many times difficult to pick out those players whose confidence may be s down vs one whose skills are just not very good.


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Joefrompgh wrote:
I hope this thread isn't closed because of this reply, which I felt compelled to make.....

"Confidence" to me are encompassing deep down thoughts that can significantly affect one's performance. What goes through someone's head can make even the most talented athlete do things differently than what comes NATURALLY. That becomes even more so when those negative thoughts are not deep down but, instead, in directly someone's head, sometimes 24/7.

Being told you have to do better or else or knowing that you are not doing well do not tend to make someone perform naturally. A pitcher may consistently try different things or even fear the batter he is facing. A hitter may approach each pitch tentatively, rather than doing his job without constant thinking cluttering his mind.

The most logical cure is success, any success, as success relieves to various degrees what negative thoughts, conscious or subconscious, is going on in one's mind.

A good baseball player is one who does his job without much thought on the mechanics. A player with confidence goes about his job using the skills he has spent many years perfecting. A player without confidence constantly challenges his skills and the results are more than not, underwhelming.

And yes, it is many times difficult to pick out those players whose confidence may be s down vs one whose skills are just not very good.


They raise 'em smart in Pittsburgh.


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:56 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Joefrompgh wrote:
I hope this thread isn't closed because of this reply, which I felt compelled to make.....

"Confidence" to me are encompassing deep down thoughts that can significantly affect one's performance. What goes through someone's head can make even the most talented athlete do things differently than what comes NATURALLY. That becomes even more so when those negative thoughts are not deep down but, instead, in directly someone's head, sometimes 24/7.

Being told you have to do better or else or knowing that you are not doing well do not tend to make someone perform naturally. A pitcher may consistently try different things or even fear the batter he is facing. A hitter may approach each pitch tentatively, rather than doing his job without constant thinking cluttering his mind.

The most logical cure is success, any success, as success relieves to various degrees what negative thoughts, conscious or subconscious, is going on in one's mind.

A good baseball player is one who does his job without much thought on the mechanics. A player with confidence goes about his job using the skills he has spent many years perfecting. A player without confidence constantly challenges his skills and the results are more than not, underwhelming.

And yes, it is many times difficult to pick out those players whose confidence may be s down vs one whose skills are just not very good.


They raise 'em smart in Pittsburgh.


Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:58 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Now "stop being mediocre" is a slam at one's confidence? Seems like it would be the opposite to me. He's obviously been mediocre for a while, and that remark should be a clear indication that they believe he can be better than that. I would take it as a shot in the arm. But given what the results were, it's clear that it will be used as more fuel for this particular crusade.


My last post on this thread and I'll move on.

But if you actually read that article, despite the headline, it states that TRAVIS himself made an introspective "How long can I be mediocre?", and then quotes Kevin Long giving TdA praise throughout. It features quotes from an interview with TdA himself being positive about a "new approach." It even says TdA remains in the Mets plans because of supposed improvements.

So if the theory is that TdA saw the article and pulled an Eeyore again, he either didn't actually read the article or is bad at inferential reading.


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:07 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Now "stop being mediocre" is a slam at one's confidence? Seems like it would be the opposite to me. He's obviously been mediocre for a while, and that remark should be a clear indication that they believe he can be better than that. I would take it as a shot in the arm. But given what the results were, it's clear that it will be used as more fuel for this particular crusade.


My last post on this thread and I'll move on.

But if you actually read that article, despite the headline, it states that TRAVIS himself made an introspective "How long can I be mediocre?", and then quotes Kevin Long giving TdA praise throughout. It features quotes from an interview with TdA himself being positive about a "new approach." It even says TdA remains in the Mets plans because of supposed improvements.

So if the theory is that TdA saw the article and pulled an Eeyore again, he either didn't actually read the article or is bad at inferential reading.


I let discretion be the better part of valor the first time you alluded to this article as a positive but srsly? "Mets lay down the gauntlet" ..."his career depends" ... "Your window of opportunity can only last so long." Nuff said.

If anyone's interested: http://nypost.com/2017/08/09/travis-darnaud-knows-its-now-or-never/

0 Hrs since then btw. If I recall correctly, he was on a pace for 30 (in a 150 game season) when he hit his 9th or 10th.

Edit: Sorry, conflated HK and MJ above.


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:33 pm 
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I still think they should make d'Arnaud into a 3rd baseman.

(ducks).

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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:00 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
I still think they should make d'Arnaud into a 3rd baseman.

(ducks).


Cool, then he can bat in the middle of the order automatically :D


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:28 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
I still think they should make d'Arnaud into a 3rd baseman.

(ducks).


Why? So he can be lousy at two positions?


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 Post subject: Re: August 30, IGT (agaist a pitcher named Homer)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:29 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
I still think they should make d'Arnaud into a 3rd baseman.

(ducks).


Cool, then he can bat in the middle of the order automatically :D


When baserunners get on base with Travis behind the plate they automatically start singing "Born To Run," to themselves. :P :lol:


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