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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:38 am 
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If he stops playing because of a medical condition he gets paid, by the Mets. The Mets need to get the money from insurance. David Wright is covered. He's getting his money. I think he's given enough time and effort into justifying that he can't play due to a medical condition.

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:43 am 
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TomInNC wrote:
I doubt he can offer a buyout for less or anything like that. The players association wouldn't allow it. The MLBPA has themselves in a much better position than NFL or other sports. Their contracts are full and guaranteed They will allow nothing that will soften that stance.


How was Cuddyer able to do it? Or was that just retirement not injured retirement? Cuddyer left a healthy amount of money on the table.

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:57 am 
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Ralf wrote:
Guess I was raised different; an honest days pay for an honest days work. If you're not working and have no intention and/or ability of working, collecting money that isn't earned is not being an honorable person imo. Its just straight up greed to collect a full salary for three years when its clear you will never work again and have more than enough money to live on for several lifetimes. The decent and honorable thing to do is work out an arrangement with the organization for a modest buyout with the intent to work within the organization for those three years. Its quite possible DW ultimately does this because he seems to be a solid dude (like Cuddyer) but time will tell.


That still might happen, but it's the player's choice.

A contract is a contract and Wright's contract says all he has to do to get paid is show up and try to play. He's entitled to all of his money.

Should the Nationals pay Daniel Murphy double because he's outperformed his contract?

I get why you'd want him to do that, but he's under no obligation too and besides, I think he really does want to come back and play and even if he chose retirement, he might have a hard time working something out cause the players union might have something to say about it.

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I've always loved a good underdog story. Go Mets (2018). I know an underdog when I see one.


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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:57 am 
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He just retired. He didn't offer to be active for less money

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:11 pm 
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There is a HUUUUUUGE difference between the legal and moral sides of this argument. I see everyone on the "pro-player" side making the legal argument but contorting themselves with the moral side. Of course LEGALLY a player in Wrights position is allowed to collect the full contract however is that moral when you know for a fact that you haven't earned it? To me, its almost a form of stealing when you're someone who is so financially stable that the money is not a lifeline for him or his family. I mean, we're not talking about the coal miner who has emphysema and is collecting disability to survive. We're talking about an individual who has earned over $100m dollars in 10 years of work.

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:19 pm 
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The amounts are irrelevant. There's a signed contract. Do players give money back if they play poorly? Do teams just write a bigger check if a rookie has a good year? Don't teams affect a player's future earnings by keeping them in the minors longer? Because they can.

The Mets owe him the money. Whether it's 1,000 or 100,000,000.

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
There is a HUUUUUUGE difference between the legal and moral sides of this argument. I see everyone on the "pro-player" side making the legal argument but contorting themselves with the moral side. Of course LEGALLY a player in Wrights position is allowed to collect the full contract however is that moral when you know for a fact that you haven't earned it? To me, its almost a form of stealing when you're someone who is so financially stable that the money is not a lifeline for him or his family. I mean, we're not talking about the coal miner who has emphysema and is collecting disability to survive. We're talking about an individual who has earned over $100m dollars in 10 years of work.


Just like he's not some poor coal miner......his employer isn't some mom and pop shop. It's a org worth over a billion dollars that made a ton of money off him over the years.

And a main aspect of baseball contracts are that they are guaranteed and players are protected against injury. A player who gets injured - as long as the injury didn't occur doing something prohibited by his contract - is entitled to the money it's not morally wrong to take it. It's one of the foundations of the deal. The Mets certainly took advantage of the contract situations the first 10 or so years of Wright's career where they paid him well under his actual value. They weren't morally corrupt for doing so...just like Wright isn't morally wrong for accepting money now. And unlike the Mets taking advantage and getting Wright cheap all those years, it's not like the current situation is all perfect for Wright. The injuries he sustained aren't fun and likely will impact the rest of his life.

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"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:26 pm 
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At the risk of being super (super duper?) annoying and grandstand-y, the legal side *is* the moral side here.

Wright's ability to even earn the right to sign the ("team friendly" at the time) contract is the result of a labor movement that slowly earned the right to negotiate contracts with the organization that drafted them. In part, these contracts and the guaranteed money were negotiated by the MLBPA precisely for situations like Wright's. Teams could (and would, and do, in some cases) otherwise intentionally or negligently run players careers into the ground with no downside. See, e.g., Football League, National. Wright has earned a ton of money from the Mets, but the data shows he and the rest of the MLBPA hasn't earned nearly what they've been worth to the team and league. And I'm not just talking about Wright. I'm talking about Michael Cuddyer, Russ Ortiz, Chico Walker, and anyone else who has ever put on the uniform. Has nothing to do with Wright being a good person, or a "star," or a media darling.

Wright's ability to get money here when he can't even play, is not only technically OK, but exactly the point of the labor movement that proceeded him. That he got hurt and gets to keep his money is why he signed the contract in the first place, and why players fought so hard to earn labor rights. Getting the money when he's a broken shell of a player is the moral issue, which is the labor issue. Giving the money back, or agreeing to take less than what he is owed, when teams absolutely not compelled to do anything resembling fair outlays to labor is, if nothing else, a misread of the history of labor in the MLB. If not for a long line of moral argument and shifting norms of what is appropriate, Wright and others like him would have continued to be exploited by owners and an industry that exists as a direct result of labor. And the industry is happy to continue to exploit minor league players and new major leaguers. Almost nobody but the owners and media companies get to see the revenue pie.

We can all make really good arguments that to the extent there is any moral issue here, it's that the owners (and the league) -- the ones Wright I guess is supposed to feel compelled to at least feel guilty (?) that he's not handing back money? -- do everything they can to keep a lid on salaries. It's hard to blame them (money's really great!), but it's weird that the issue of morality and "earning" only appears to be a one-way street in the public. The only investment in America that has had no limit over the years is sports team ownership. It's the best game in town because the labor is captive and the demand is sewn into the culture. The league generates billions of dollars and pays labor, collectively, almost nothing in comparison.

Aaron Judge is making $544,500 this year. Aaron Judge's jersey sold at auction for $157,366 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2724 ... at-auction). Mike Trout was arguably the best player in baseball when he made league minimum in 2012. Something's up.

So I strongly believe there is a moral issue when it comes to Wright's contract, and it falls squarely on the side of him taking all the money he can from a system that has done everything it can to steal his talent for profit.

If folks are interested: https://www.amazon.com/Well-Paid-Slave- ... 0452288916

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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:44 pm 
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I doubt that is going to move anyone who has already decided how they view this. However I do feel like the target has moved on this from the injustice of taking up a precious roster spot to stealing money from the Wilpons, neither of which I understood.


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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Wrights been a model citizen. Never did anything wrong unlike guys like Cespedes and Harvey

We fans are tolerant of Wright because of this. If it was someone else you can bet we'd lash out at them for being selfish.

Wright does deserve some leeway but there's definitely a limit and he is close to reaching it


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 Post subject: Re: What does it mean if David Wright retires?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Ciarán wrote:
Wrights been a model citizen. Never did anything wrong unlike guys like Cespedes and Harvey

We fans are tolerant of Wright because of this. If it was someone else you can bet we'd lash out at them for being selfish.

Wright does deserve some leeway but there's definitely a limit and he is close to reaching it

Which is still dumb IMO. By all accounts he's been working very hard and desperately trying to return. I can understand the anger if a guy wasn't that hurt and wasn't really putting effort in. But hating a guy for getting hurt is dumb. There's nothing to be "intolerant" about. "Oh, I'm mad at that guy for hurting his spine when he had a guaranteed contract"

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

Rich Coutinho wrote:
When I hear Yankee fans whine I always laugh. It is like the people who invented the color blue complaining about life


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