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Who is #8
http://www.nyfuturestars.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44727
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Author:  Metro2007 [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

Even a legit mlb closer

Author:  HeyNowHK [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

acerimusdux wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Kind of a weird guy to take up a crusade against. If the shoulder holds up, he's prob as good a sleeper pick for a breakout as any for next year (and maybe with as high a ceiling as any arm in the org.)


I didn't see him as a top 20 guy before the shoulder problem. Did anyone even have him ranked top 30 coming into this year? Why on earth would his stock be up?

I think he was definitely missed in pre-season rankings. JeffP, for one, noted that.

Quote:
Every year at the mothership we give out “The Vogelsong Awards” for the best players that didn’t even get a mention in that year’s BP Annual. I may need to institute my own version of that for the best Mets prospect that we didn’t bother to include in our preseason affiliate previews. It may end up getting named the Holderman Award. In my defense, Columbia had by far the most dudes to write about, and the rotation is especially crowded with prospecty arms. And I did consider writing about Holderman, who was projected to go much higher than ninth round before the stuff evaporated due to some arm issues last spring. The Mets gave him $400,000 to keep him from transferring to Mississippi State with the hope that some workload management and pro instruction might get the fastball up to 96 again. That might be aspirational, but Holderman did look too good for the South Atlantic League in his first outing. He’s toned down the Arroyo leg kick part of his Arroyo-cum-Addison-Reed mechanics, and a pretty good Hickory lineup was overmatched by his fastball/breaking ball combo. The Mets usually keep guys in the A-ball levels for a full first half, but Holderman may test their resolve here. At a minimum, he probably will get a blurb in our 2018 Binghamton…sigh…Rumble Ponies preview. JeffP 4/14/17


So, yeah it's very much depending on the shoulder... but for a weak system, he's a guy to dream on. The ceiling is there.

Author:  LTKfRGM [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

Holderman's first start this year (the start Jeff P is referencing) was just silly-good.

6 innings, 1 hit, 11 Ks 0 walks. But after that he seemed to run into trouble. His next start, just 2 innings and 2 HBP and 2 starts after that he was on the minor league DL.

I think the upside is legit, but big questions on health. I find it tough to vote for a guy like that though. I'd probably push him back into the 20s. Ryder Ryan territory.

Author:  acerimusdux [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

LTKfRGM wrote:
Holderman's first start this year (the start Jeff P is referencing) was just silly-good.

6 innings, 1 hit, 11 Ks but after that he seemed to run into trouble.

There's a clip on youtube of that 11th strikeout, and even there he looks just OK to me.



I think Jeff got a little excited over one start in April, but after that I guess the arm issues which caused him to fall to 9th round came back (is it the same issue?). If the gamble was he'd recover from the arm trouble, it's not really that encouraging yet.

Author:  LTKfRGM [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

acerimusdux wrote:

There's a clip on youtube of that 11th strikeout, and even there he looks just OK to me.



I think Jeff got a little excited over one start in April, but after that I guess the arm issues which caused him to fall to 9th round came back (is it the same issue?). If the gamble was he'd recover from the arm trouble, it's not really that encouraging yet.


I'm inclined to agree with you there. That last pitch fooled the hitter but I don't know if it fools a major leaguer and the other looking strike looked straight down the middle. (I don't have a great eye for pitches though).

He also bounced one off the dirt, but he might have looked better earlier in the game.

Author:  nocedog [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

Our #3 overall prospect is the #10 prospect in the gulf coast league. Where are my shades?

Author:  HeyNowHK [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

acerimusdux wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Holderman's first start this year (the start Jeff P is referencing) was just silly-good.

6 innings, 1 hit, 11 Ks but after that he seemed to run into trouble.

There's a clip on youtube of that 11th strikeout, and even there he looks just OK to me.



I think Jeff got a little excited over one start in April, but after that I guess the arm issues which caused him to fall to 9th round came back (is it the same issue?). If the gamble was he'd recover from the arm trouble, it's not really that encouraging yet.

Looks pretty dang good to me. First he looks every bit a ML SPer. He's a horse at 6'7" 240. He looks like a more athletic Aaron Harang. Has that downward plane-slicing action on the cheese that is supposedly mid 90s. Plus showed a pretty impressive hook there.

As to other concerns relating to consistency and command, he's 55 IP in to his pro career plus a shoulder issue. It's an obvious work in process. But I think the delivery/mechanics look solid. And as I said, given where this particular system is at, this looks like a guy you can dream on if it all comes together. This is an easy mid or even early teens guy for me.

Author:  HeyNowHK [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

Wow, Cheech has really tumbled. Getting no support at all here is an overreaction. There should be a floor of support for him around 10. He seems to be one of these guys who has more or less average tools across the board but no standouts. Guys like that can go either way - either they hang around the majors as a role player for a while or they can't find the right opportunity and flounder and get labeled as a AAAA player.

I think the Mets should have exposed him to CF this season. The versatility makes him more valuable.

Author:  HeyNowHK [ Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

As to Guillorme, that's a really tough profile to get behind. That's a choppy oppo slicing GB swing that has thus far not generated much in the way of XBHs. Yes he makes contact and draws walks, but those walks are going to be harder to come by at this level if he can't make pitchers pay for catching too much of the plate.

And if he doesn't hit enough, which is what it currently looks like, then it's prob not a starting profile. And coming off the bench, you generally opt for bat over glove so I'm not sure it's a great bench profile. Seems to me that the bat is going to need to play up in order for this profile to work. And he's going to have to prove that. I mean, we are talking just 707 OPS in AA and 647 in A+ the last 2 seasons. And he's also maxed out physically, so there isn't that to hang on to. Consider me dubious.

Author:  Hot Takes [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

A guy with a legit 70 glove is more valuable than a guy with 45/50s across the board, period. Sure, Guillorme will probably never hit, but he'll get more opportunities than Cecchini (maybe for the Mets, maybe elsewhere) by virtue of that glove.

Author:  Hot Takes [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

What makes you think Cecchini would be able to play CF? His arm would barely play in a corner and he's not the greatest athlete in the world. Might as well expose Evans, Guillorme, or whoever to the OF.

(I know we're already exposing Urena to OF but that's because he's not going to stick at 3B and his bat doesn't profile as a 1B -- think of it as the Boyd move.)

Author:  HeyNowHK [ Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who is #8

Look at the support Kay is getting. It's entirely draft pedigree. The guy hasn't thrown 1 pitch yet as a professional. Will turn 23 before next season begins.

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