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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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Seaver seems like a false equivalency.

Gooden may be the better analogy.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:59 pm 
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I do think in general people are being too hard on Harvey. He was a great pitcher who got hurt and has had difficulty returning from injury. I don't think the hate he's gotten in some quarters is warranted. (And baseball wise I think it's foolish to give up on him at this point).

But I can also understand he doesn't always paint himself in the best light. When you do things like not show up to work, show up late, create unnecessary drama - I can see where people are less tolerable of bad performances. And he supposedly isn't always exactly the most friendly guy towards the media. I know many fans probably don't care about how Harvey treats the NYDN/NY Post reporter - but the media members are human too - and likely to be more harsh in their criticisms of players who don't treat them well.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

Rich Coutinho wrote:
When I hear Yankee fans whine I always laugh. It is like the people who invented the color blue complaining about life


RIP uapeople


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:01 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
As you said, he's not a team leader, he's out for himself, plus other places you didn't go with this.

People here are running David Wright out the door after his career, what he gave for the team, his leadership, etc, etc and you want me to accept Harvey's couple season as a reason to give him a break?


I like David Wright. If I met him on the street, I'd give him a fan's stare or give him a thumbs up or say something like "big mets fan - love you David" - in a manly way, ofcourse. I hate Wright's contract. I love David Wright. And yes, I think he should retire and I think the whole system stinks with 40 man roster spots and insurance payouts and all that. If I got into a conversation with DW, the first thing I'd ask him is "why don't you retire - off the record, I'd like to hear his honest answer"

I like Harvey too. And yes, I think you should give Harvey a break. He's given this team a lot and he's had to deal with career-threatening injuries.

If I got into a conversation with Harvey the first thing I'd ask him is "do you think metsfans suck?" Fans have always been quick to turn on a player. I've never shared that POV. Then I'd ask him if he could pitch anywhere, where he'd like to pitch next year.

Those are rather odd conversation starters

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

Rich Coutinho wrote:
When I hear Yankee fans whine I always laugh. It is like the people who invented the color blue complaining about life


RIP uapeople


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:08 pm 
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In fairness people here were calling for a Harvey trade before the TOS, because of the feeling that he'd be gone the moment the Yanks made an offer. The feeling was that he wasn't looking to be a lifelong Met.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Harvey is/was a Met that felt like a Yankee. This - the turn by fans - feels like something that was always going to happen, sadly. Says a ton about the fans and the organization.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:10 pm 
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MetsWhiz93 wrote:
Harvey is/was a Met that felt like a Yankee. This - the turn by fans - feels like something that was always going to happen, sadly. Says a ton about the fans and the organization.


I root for the laundry. I like it when our players do too.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Funny, I always imagined Harvey as a Red Sox player.


However, this thread isn't about Harvey's contract or demeanor. Keep it on topic, please.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Steve The Original wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
Steve The Original wrote:
Trade Rosario for Marcell Ozuna only if the Mets are convinced he can play CF for the next 5 years. Sign Cozart for SS. Sign Kintlzer or Reed for the BP. Sign Yhoulis Chacin for the Starting rotation.


Think I said this elsewhere, but as much as he is intriguing, before this past year was the time to get him.

Is he the .924 hitter, the .773 hitter, or the .691 hitter?

Personally, I think he is closer to the .780-.800 hitter.


Or it could have been his breakout year. And he wasn't available "before" this past year. I'm sure if Sandy could have had a crystal ball and traded for every player before their breakout year he would.


Obviously you can't foresee, but my point is, are you paying Rosario+ for Ozuna's near past or longer range past because the price went up to serious risk levels in personnel.

He's an interesting guy, but I imagine he costs a bundle based on his 2017, and not his 2015-2016.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Blue Chipper

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jdawginsc wrote:
Funny, I always imagined Harvey as a Red Sox player.
However, this thread isn't about Harvey's contract or demeanor. Keep it on topic, please.


For sure. I'll just throw some stuff that I was thinking about for the Mets

- Call on Wil Myers, Gregory Polanco for just bats in the order
- Call on Ian Kinsler for second base
- Trade Travis d'Arnaud for one of Brandon Drury or Ketel Marte
- tender/trade Matt Harvey
- adding a starting pitcher (Darvish [-o<, but in reality, Lance Lynn)
- the front end of the bullpen
- trading Juan Lagares (Seattle makes sense to me)

It's all so tricky because the Mets have little things that we don't know. If they still view Conforto as a CF, it makes more sense to go get the RF bat. If they want to keep Cabrera (would be easier to move now because he's 1-8.5), then third is a spot of need. It seems like they never liked Flores anywhere, otherwise him at second makes sense.

The Mets need a starting pitcher, but a legit one, and move one. Aside from Thor, you can't count on bounceback seasons from Harvey and Wheeler and Matz and Gsellman. Just a ton of mystery after that top two. Need someone who can just be solid.

Are they building a "superpen?" I feel like another big-time pen arm is something I keep seeing, but if that's the case, why not get one - Reed - and say Joe Smith? Idk.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:47 pm 
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TomInNC wrote:
In fairness people here were calling for a Harvey trade before the TOS, because of the feeling that he'd be gone the moment the Yanks made an offer. The feeling was that he wasn't looking to be a lifelong Met.

I feel like that was also something fans spent too much time worrying about. I get it to an extent but it seemed a little too crazy to be fretting in 2013 that Harvey might be a Yankee in 2020.

And in general the Mets are not a particularly successful or historic franchise. So we probably shouldnt be expecting too many players to be dying to play for and/or stay with the Mets.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

Rich Coutinho wrote:
When I hear Yankee fans whine I always laugh. It is like the people who invented the color blue complaining about life


RIP uapeople


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 pm 
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MetGirl5 wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
In fairness people here were calling for a Harvey trade before the TOS, because of the feeling that he'd be gone the moment the Yanks made an offer. The feeling was that he wasn't looking to be a lifelong Met.

I feel like that was also something fans spent too much time worrying about. I get it to an extent but it seemed a little too crazy to be fretting in 2013 that Harvey might be a Yankee in 2020.

And in general the Mets are not a particularly successful or historic franchise. So we probably shouldnt be expecting too many players to be dying to play for and/or stay with the Mets.


We are historic, we just aren't successful. But that's part of why we're historic.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 "What Would YOU Do" Offseason Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:35 am 
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I still have trouble thinking of us as historic given 2/3 of MLB franchises were in existence before us but 55 years is in the historic realm I suppose. But I don't think players are actively avoiding us because of a lack of success. Some would because of the NY thing, but others want to play in NY so that kind of balances out.

northway wrote:
I root for the laundry. I like it when our players do too.


Well I don't think we should expect blind loyalty from any player. That said there's a difference between expecting lifelong fealty and knowing a guy's just biding his time till he leaves. That I can do without.


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