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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:07 pm 
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I imagine David Wright is granted a lot of deference by people due to his stature...that would not be true of everyone Id guess.

We all have worked in places where some seem to have the attention of management and others don't.


But let's keep this to Mickey.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:07 pm 
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MetGirl5 wrote:

I didn't like the article, but I didn't take issue with Carig writing what people were telling him. I agree I don't think the gripes in that article "he didnt say hi to me" were really much to be griping about.......and I don't think many players or anyone in the FO really have much room to gripe given how poorly they did their own jobs.
I think it makes the Mets look bad much moreso than it makes Collins look bad.


Oh I completely agree, but it's obvious the intention was to make Collins look bad at his job.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:09 pm 
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I'm trying to understand the idea behind why Carig would decide to concoct this story. Where are the quotes disputing Carig spoke to players? That players knocked Collins? The booth ripped crapping on Collins on the way out. Wright suggested he liked Terry and players were "snakes" for saying what they did. If anything Wright's quotes suggest HE believed players spoke to Carig, not that Carig was a liar.

Do these comments from Wright suggest he felt Carig concocted a fake story? They sure read to me like Wright knocking players for giving Carig the quotes.. very real quotes.

David Wright did not mince words. The Mets captain called anonymous complaints to reporters about manager Terry Collins “cowardly” Friday and told his teammates to “man up.”

“It was cowardly, in my opinion. I have been very fortunate in my career. I haven’t had too many gripes, but when I did, I went and talked to Terry or whoever the manager is. His door has always been open and he’s always listened,” Wright said before the Mets game Friday against the Phillies.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Interesting quotes from Bud Black.

Quote:
“Being the manager is a lot more about who the person is than what position they played,” Black said by phone on Monday, “but I remember having those conversations with some of my veteran players in my first year — guys like Brian Giles, Mike Cameron, Geoff Blum.

“I threw a disclaimer out there: I said, ‘Am I going to talk to you about hitting mechanics or turning a double play? No. I know that I haven’t been in your shoes, but my staff is here for that, and here’s how I feel about how we’re going to play as a team. Or here’s my opinion on why we’re striking out too much.’

“Listen, players are going to watch any manager. There’s a certain baseball intellect we all have regardless of what position we play, and managing is a position that requires leadership skills.

“Once the players understand who you are, it becomes more about the person, your intellect and attitude. I tried to let that occur naturally. I think it has to happen that way.”

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
PS how did the beat writers know the name of EVERY candidate except Mark DeRosa if they were being played by the FO? I'm still trying to understand how this is the case. All but Mark DeRosa were openly known to be candidates. The writers guessing guys like Hale/Geren might be candidates somehow proves the FO "tricked" them? Really strange stuff/theories. Hiring Callaway was a surprise, Callaway being a candidate was OPENLY known by the writers since "day one" of the process.

Then why wasn't he mentioned from "Day 1" if that's the case? Again, I posted (page 4) Carig's update of the candidate list on Oct 11th. It was Hale, Geren, Ventura, McEwing, Long, SAJ, Alex Cora, and Ausmus.

I believe Oct 16 was the first mention of Callaway getting an interview, but I could've missed something.

@NYPost_Mets Oct 16
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Indians pitching coach Mickey Callaway will interview for the Mets' managerial opening on Wednesday.

Same goes for Acta as far as I recall. If there was other stuff out there on these interviewees, it wasn't well publicized. I don't recall those two names surfacing here until just a week ago. Why is this a question now?


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:26 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
PS how did the beat writers know the name of EVERY candidate except Mark DeRosa if they were being played by the FO? I'm still trying to understand how this is the case. All but Mark DeRosa were openly known to be candidates. The writers guessing guys like Hale/Geren might be candidates somehow proves the FO "tricked" them? Really strange stuff/theories. Hiring Callaway was a surprise, Callaway being a candidate was OPENLY known by the writers since "day one" of the process.

Then why wasn't he mentioned from "Day 1" if that's the case? Again, I posted (page 4) Carig's update of the candidate lost on Oct 11th. It was Hale, Geren, Ventura, McEwing, Long, SAJ, Alex Cora, and Ausmus.

I believe Oct 16 was the first mention of Callaway getting an interview, but I could've missed something.

@NYPost_Mets Oct 16
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Indians pitching coach Mickey Callaway will interview for the Mets' managerial opening on Wednesday.

Same goes for Acta as far as I recall. If there was other stuff out there on these interviewees, it wasn't well publicized. I don't recall those two names surfacing here until just a week ago. Why is this a question now?


Wait... on October 12th it was reported he had made the "list" per Ken Rosenthal and he was hired 10/22. So the Mets were "trolling" the writers but let it be known they would be interviewing Callaway? I'm not understanding this premise. Callaway being hired WAS a surprise, him being a candidate was well known DESPITE the Mets not publicly commenting. How did we know he was interviewing? They didn't say they were interviewing him?

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:28 pm 
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How did we know about McEwing, Ventura, Ausmus etc? How did Puma know Callaway would be in on 10/18? Selective trolling of writers? Because the Mets to my knowledge didn't comment at ALL on who they were considering.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:30 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
PS how did the beat writers know the name of EVERY candidate except Mark DeRosa if they were being played by the FO? I'm still trying to understand how this is the case. All but Mark DeRosa were openly known to be candidates. The writers guessing guys like Hale/Geren might be candidates somehow proves the FO "tricked" them? Really strange stuff/theories. Hiring Callaway was a surprise, Callaway being a candidate was OPENLY known by the writers since "day one" of the process.

Then why wasn't he mentioned from "Day 1" if that's the case? Again, I posted (page 4) Carig's update of the candidate list on Oct 11th. It was Hale, Geren, Ventura, McEwing, Long, SAJ, Alex Cora, and Ausmus.

I believe Oct 16 was the first mention of Callaway getting an interview, but I could've missed something.

@NYPost_Mets Oct 16
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Indians pitching coach Mickey Callaway will interview for the Mets' managerial opening on Wednesday.

Same goes for Acta as far as I recall. If there was other stuff out there on these interviewees, it wasn't well publicized. I don't recall those two names surfacing here until just a week ago. Why is this a question now?


You are taking "potential candidates" comments from writers and somehow adding them to CONFIRMED names they planned to speak to ie Ausmus/Ventura/McEwing/Acta etc and these were "confirmed" by the Writers aka they had information not guesses. Who was said to HAVE interviewed or WOULD be coming in for an interview that didn't? Nobody.

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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Just to reset a bit here - what is even the argument?

1) Carig is making stuff up because he has no sources and his failure to guess Mickey Callaway is proof of that?
2) The FO is punishing Carig [for reporting anonymous quotes fed to him about state of the organization] by feeding him misinformation?
3) The FO are masters of misdirection because the guy generally inferred to be their 3rd choice is the one they hired?


I think the fairly obvious/non-controversial state of the beat is that no one currently working it is as "tuned in" as Rubin has been, so generally the state of inside information is lesser now locally than it used to be. It also appears fairly obvious that the current regime will utilize leaks/anonymous quotes to plant negative stories where it seems fit to explain decisions/turn public perception where they want it.

Rubin may have had Callaway earlier if he were still full time on the beat. Also, Carig was clearly used to hatchet Collins when they decided they wanted him gone as they felt he had too much power in the organization and wanted to embarrass the "situation" a bit so that there was no questioning the decision to oust him.

Thats really it, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
I'm trying to understand the idea behind why Carig would decide to concoct this story. Where are the quotes disputing Carig spoke to players? That players knocked Collins? The booth ripped crapping on Collins on the way out. Wright suggested he liked Terry and players were "snakes" for saying what they did. If anything Wright's quotes suggest HE believed players spoke to Carig, not that Carig was a liar.

Do these comments from Wright suggest he felt Carig concocted a fake story? They sure read to me like Wright knocking players for giving Carig the quotes.. very real quotes.

David Wright did not mince words. The Mets captain called anonymous complaints to reporters about manager Terry Collins “cowardly” Friday and told his teammates to “man up.”

“It was cowardly, in my opinion. I have been very fortunate in my career. I haven’t had too many gripes, but when I did, I went and talked to Terry or whoever the manager is. His door has always been open and he’s always listened,” Wright said before the Mets game Friday against the Phillies.

Where did I say it was a fabrication? I said it comes off as a weak sauce, non-story hit piece of a guy who many felt deserved better than that. A bunch of unnamed sources said that "Collins didn't say hi to me" and we're supposed to get all upset about Collins big breakdown with the players? Color me not impressed. I didn't say that Carig made this up but he put it out there to intentionally make Collins look bad. Writers don't normally do that unless they've got some axe to grind. I don't know what the particular agenda is in defending Carig on this. If you think it was all some great expose, you are certainly entitled.

Based on the fact that the story was built on not one named source, it's veracity is really just a matter of your level of faith. I just happened to have a built in skepticism and when it is exclusively "unnamed" sources and the story itself is weak, then it adds up to a big ho-hum. But in this case, it was clear that he intended to smear Collins, and there were plenty of people who bristled at that.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:04 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Just to reset a bit here - what is even the argument?

1) Carig is making stuff up because he has no sources and his failure to guess Mickey Callaway is proof of that?
2) The FO is punishing Carig [for reporting anonymous quotes fed to him about state of the organization] by feeding him misinformation?
3) The FO are masters of misdirection because the guy generally inferred to be their 3rd choice is the one they hired?


I think the fairly obvious/non-controversial state of the beat is that no one currently working it is as "tuned in" as Rubin has been, so generally the state of inside information is lesser now locally than it used to be. It also appears fairly obvious that the current regime will utilize leaks/anonymous quotes to plant negative stories where it seems fit to explain decisions/turn public perception where they want it.

Rubin may have had Callaway earlier if he were still full time on the beat. Also, Carig was clearly used to hatchet Collins when they decided they wanted him gone as they felt he had too much power in the organization and wanted to embarrass the "situation" a bit so that there was no questioning the decision to oust him.

Thats really it, no?

1, 2 and 3 may be exaggerations of things I said. I think I have spoken pretty clearly for myself however, without needing to be paraphrased here. As to the rest, I would agree.

I was just responding to a comment about why Met fans seems particularly angry at their beat writers. That's the only reason I am talking about Carig here.


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 Post subject: Re: Sherman: Mets to hire Callaway as manager
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:16 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
But in this case, it was clear that he intended to smear Collins, and there were plenty of people who bristled at that.

I think it's completely unjustified to suggest Carig intended to smear Collins.

At the time, it was not official that TC would not be returning. But it had been widely reported. All Carig did, was to ask, "why?" And then he reported the answers he got, from more than a dozen people connected to the Mets, including some who defended Collins.

I don't understand how, when so many people can say this story made the Mets look bad, not Collins, that you then argue that somehow Carig's intention was to make Collins look bad.

And which of those quotes would you have left out, if you were writing the story? I just don't think Carig slanted this, he wrote the story that was there.


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