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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:06 am 
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Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


The fans are, largely, idiots.

>>On Tuesday, The Post conducted a Twitter poll: “Mets fans, how would you feel about Carlos Beltran wearing a Mets hat into the Hall of Fame?” As of 6 p.m., 1,053 votes had been cast, with 52 percent voting for “Thrilled, was a great Met;” 33 percent voting for “Don’t care either way;” and 15 percent going with “Not after the NLCS at-bat.”

On one hand, the majority supported it. On the other hand, can you imagine any such other situation in which 48 percent would have not enthusiastically supported it?<<

http://nypost.com/2017/11/15/the-cap-be ... -mets-one/


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:53 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
northway wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


2.9 WAR.


I see 2.3, and think that’s a cop out relative to Expectations. Where did he rank pay wise in the league in 2005?

Mike Hampton had 2 fWAR his first year in Colorado too- I’d be comfortable labeling him a disaster there regardless.


He definitely wasn't great his first year, but I just think that with the analytics we have now it wasn't that bad of a season, particularly for a guy who was always more of a sum of the parts kind of player. That team was on the edge of contention and Beltran, though not at his best, was part of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:42 am 
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I don't actually disagree with the premise of the Post piece on Beltran wearing PR on his cap. In a post-WBC era to me wearing the country logo is better aesthetically than nothing at all on the cap.


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:52 am 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


The fans are, largely, idiots.

>>On Tuesday, The Post conducted a Twitter poll: “Mets fans, how would you feel about Carlos Beltran wearing a Mets hat into the Hall of Fame?” As of 6 p.m., 1,053 votes had been cast, with 52 percent voting for “Thrilled, was a great Met;” 33 percent voting for “Don’t care either way;” and 15 percent going with “Not after the NLCS at-bat.”

On one hand, the majority supported it. On the other hand, can you imagine any such other situation in which 48 percent would have not enthusiastically supported it?<<

http://nypost.com/2017/11/15/the-cap-be ... -mets-one/


I would firmly put myself in the "Don't care either way" as I literally could not care less what "cap" a guy wears in the HOF. If Piazza had a better relationship with the Dodgers and went in with their hat as they gave him his "start", I wouldn't have been offended, nor would it have changed anything he did here or his standing as my favorite Met. So, yes, I could easily imagine how.

A different way to look at it might be 85% of fans don't fit the narrative of "OMG they're so stupid they hate Beltran because of 1 AB!!!!"


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:06 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


The fans are, largely, idiots.

>>On Tuesday, The Post conducted a Twitter poll: “Mets fans, how would you feel about Carlos Beltran wearing a Mets hat into the Hall of Fame?” As of 6 p.m., 1,053 votes had been cast, with 52 percent voting for “Thrilled, was a great Met;” 33 percent voting for “Don’t care either way;” and 15 percent going with “Not after the NLCS at-bat.”

On one hand, the majority supported it. On the other hand, can you imagine any such other situation in which 48 percent would have not enthusiastically supported it?<<

http://nypost.com/2017/11/15/the-cap-be ... -mets-one/


I would firmly put myself in the "Don't care either way" as I literally could not care less what "cap" a guy wears in the HOF. If Piazza had a better relationship with the Dodgers and went in with their hat as they gave him his "start", I wouldn't have been offended, nor would it have changed anything he did here or his standing as my favorite Met. So, yes, I could easily imagine how.

A different way to look at it might be 85% of fans don't fit the narrative of "OMG they're so stupid they hate Beltran because of 1 AB!!!!"


Fine but, first of all, "offended" wasn't really the standard. 48% didn't take the option that termed him a great Met.

More significantly, do you think any other Met HOFer, eg Piazza, would only gather 52% for "great Met"?


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:13 am 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


The fans are, largely, idiots.

>>On Tuesday, The Post conducted a Twitter poll: “Mets fans, how would you feel about Carlos Beltran wearing a Mets hat into the Hall of Fame?” As of 6 p.m., 1,053 votes had been cast, with 52 percent voting for “Thrilled, was a great Met;” 33 percent voting for “Don’t care either way;” and 15 percent going with “Not after the NLCS at-bat.”

On one hand, the majority supported it. On the other hand, can you imagine any such other situation in which 48 percent would have not enthusiastically supported it?<<

http://nypost.com/2017/11/15/the-cap-be ... -mets-one/

First and foremost, it's frankly an issue that as one gets older of a 'who really gives a crap' kind of thing...

And second, Beltran was always a sort of low emotion kind of player, and one that did things so naturally that he never seemed to be exerting max effort. For those reasons he was never enthusiastically supported as much as he deserved to be.

And then he got into rifts with the team over his knees and whether or not he was at fault, it sort of tarnished his tenure a little bit. I mean, we all know these things tend to be Wilpon-created dramas, but there may have been some shared blame there.

And of course the strikeout. And they never made it back to the playoffs for the last 5 years of his tenure. So, as with any 7 year marriage, there were ups and downs. But I think the overriding thing about Beltran was that the team enjoyed no real success in his 7 yrs aside from his 2nd yr and that was punctuated by the K, which had a lasting impact on many. So the responses in that survey don't really surprise me.


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
And of course the strikeout. And they never made it back to the playoffs for the last 5 years of his tenure. So, as with any 7 year marriage, there were ups and downs. But I think the overriding thing about Beltran was that the team enjoyed no real success in his 7 yrs aside from his 2nd yr and that was punctuated by the K, which had a lasting impact on many. So the responses in that survey don't really surprise me.


It's just unfortunate that players are judged by the overall team success. Griffey wasn't on many good teams but if you are a fan of the teams he was on, you have to appreciate his greatness. And Beltran was good/great in almost every aspect of the game for a lot of his time as a Met.


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:33 pm 
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SergioTheLittleMan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Always thought the “fans didn’t appreciate him” thing was such BS. He stunk the first year and I’m sorry he was too fragile to take heat for that. The rest of the time the fans loved him.


The fans are, largely, idiots.

>>On Tuesday, The Post conducted a Twitter poll: “Mets fans, how would you feel about Carlos Beltran wearing a Mets hat into the Hall of Fame?” As of 6 p.m., 1,053 votes had been cast, with 52 percent voting for “Thrilled, was a great Met;” 33 percent voting for “Don’t care either way;” and 15 percent going with “Not after the NLCS at-bat.”

On one hand, the majority supported it. On the other hand, can you imagine any such other situation in which 48 percent would have not enthusiastically supported it?<<

http://nypost.com/2017/11/15/the-cap-be ... -mets-one/



Those poll options were stupid. I think he was a great Met, but I don't think he should wear a Mets hat in the HOF. I wasn't going to click that "NLCS at bat" option though

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
"Wright is greedy" is easily the worst take in the recent history of Mets fandom, and there have been some bad takes in Mets fandom.

Rich Coutinho wrote:
When I hear Yankee fans whine I always laugh. It is like the people who invented the color blue complaining about life


RIP uapeople


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:24 pm 
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ndfordarling wrote:
86 and 99 were fun offenses but 2006 was just awesome to watch


Agree.

And the '06 and '99 bullpens where also my favorites as a fan since 1983.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:17 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
MetGirl5 wrote:
tejdog1 wrote:

August/September 2015.

But yeah, love Carlos. He does get a bum rap from a good portion of the "fanbase" who won't let that one AB ever go. EVER. (Go look up his NLCS stats vs your Golden Boy David Wright's, and then tell me who was responsible for that loss).

Hating on Golden boy is utterly moronic as well


This is a classic post. “Fanbase” in quotes who criticize Beltran and then right after criticizes David Wright. Lol.


Oh come on. It was in reference to this. It's not "bashing" to point this out.

2006 NLCS
Wright .160/.276/.320/.596, 4 for 25, 2 runs, 2b, HR, 2 RBI, 4/4 BB/K
Beltran .296/.387/.667/1.054, 8 for 27, 8 runs, 2b, 3 HR, 4 RBI, 4/3 BB/K

Come off it. Wright was atrocious in that NLCS.

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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:10 am 
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It's not bashing when you call him golden boy derisively and say he's responsible for the loss? Alrighty then.

And I love Beltran too but you know why Wright gets the benefit of the doubt with Met fans more than Beltran. Wright's the homegrown star who's basically been a Met since birth while Beltran when he was a FA was begging the Yankees to sign him before Omar threw him enough money so he settled on here. That's just the overarching difference, there are others.

Yeah Beltran was a great Met but circumstances weren't always on his side (bad first year after coming here, the GIF ending to his second season where he could have easily won an MVP and then the Mets never got back to the playoffs after). He wasn't even that stained by the two collapses since he did well those Septembers, but ultimately he was just part of that what should have been era that stained everyone to varying degrees other than David.


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you Carlos
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:40 pm 
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I said, and I'll quote it right here:
Quote:
(Go look up his NLCS stats vs your Golden Boy David Wright's, and then tell me who was responsible for that loss).


Meaning, between the two, who was more responsible?

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Terry Collins cost the Mets a World Series title.

The Wilpons are the worst owners in worldwide professional sports.


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