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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:06 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Matthew Cerrone @matthewcerrone
5m
#MLBHotStove >> Hey, @Mets, if Cain, Moustakas and Walker can be had for one-year deals, despite costing $50M, YOU SHOULD DO IT !! Here's why >> goo.gl/CtWHDh #LGM #YGB #UnfinishedBusiness #GOForIT


The capitalization, the random hashtags - Cerrone is losing his mind.


Even in my caffeine induced silliness, I cannot imagine Cain and Moustakas getting frozen out into one-year deals.

On the other hand, I don't think Neil Walker has much of a market.


Moustakas in particular, what does he have to gain from a one year deal? He’d have to put up the same insane numbers next year to move the needle (maybe) and that’d be as part of a better UFA class.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:07 pm 
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So I was reading old articles about the Wilpons selling minority shares in 2012. It turns out that when they structured the minority stakes ($20m each for 4% of team), the minority investors were not required to pay up in capital calls. Maybe someone in finance can explain the ramifications but as a layman, this has to be a huge hindrance on payroll if they Wilpons are the only ones putting money in the team.

Also, take this with a grain of salt but one MMO poster has speculated the payroll is frozen because Saul is about to sell his share.

Here's hoping Steven Cohen somehow steals the franchise away from the Wilpons!

Also, one other thing. The original minority stake agreements come due in February 2018 where the Wilpons will have to pay back $20m to each stake holder PLUS compounded interest over the past 6 years (if a minority owner wants their money back).

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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
So I was reading old articles about the Wilpons selling minority shares in 2012. It turns out that when they structured the minority stakes ($20m each for 4% of team), the minority investors were not required to pay up in capital calls. Maybe someone in finance can explain the ramifications but as a layman, this has to be a huge hindrance on payroll if they Wilpons are the only ones putting money in the team.

Also, take this with a grain of salt but one MMO poster has speculated the payroll is frozen because Saul is about to sell his share.

Here's hoping Steven Cohen somehow steals the franchise away from the Wilpons!

Frankly, at this point and with what the Marlins sold for, it wouldn't surprise me if the Pons were considering a sale. Now that attention is on them and it seems clear that they cannot (or are not willing) compete at the level they should be at, the time could be right. If the wheels start to come off, they may want to get out before another down period comes.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:16 pm 
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The Mets would sell for over 2 billion dollars. This alone is why Phillips "sympathy for ownership" stuff is ABSURD. They have chosen to sit on a 2 billion dollar asset, boo hoo.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Found this doozy in an old article too:

Quote:
However, no matter how badly long-suffering Mets fans would like to see the cash-strapped Wilpon ride off into the sunset, the team’s ownership structure almost guarantees Wilpon staying in control of the team, The Post has learned.

Wilpon is the sole Mets managing general partner, and that means even if his family’s share of the team gets reduced to a minority stake, he will continue to run the club, sources close to the situation said.

Katz, who serves as the president of the team, quickly denied the report.

“There is no truth to the reports of any intention of selling,” he said. “I have no intention of selling my share of the Mets, nor have I ever had any intention of selling my share.”

While a sale may not be in his current plans, Katz does not have to worry about Wilpon losing control of the losing team.

“Someone who buys Saul’s stake would have no rights,” a source close to the situation said.

And even if a majority of new owners wanted to remove Wilpon as general partner, they would find it very difficult to doso, sources added.

Many Major League teams have general partners who own minority stakes in their teams. Those GPs cannot be forcibly removed.


:x

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"Reyes is a virus" guy is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
Found this doozy in an old article too:

Quote:
However, no matter how badly long-suffering Mets fans would like to see the cash-strapped Wilpon ride off into the sunset, the team’s ownership structure almost guarantees Wilpon staying in control of the team, The Post has learned.

Wilpon is the sole Mets managing general partner, and that means even if his family’s share of the team gets reduced to a minority stake, he will continue to run the club, sources close to the situation said.

Katz, who serves as the president of the team, quickly denied the report.

“There is no truth to the reports of any intention of selling,” he said. “I have no intention of selling my share of the Mets, nor have I ever had any intention of selling my share.”

While a sale may not be in his current plans, Katz does not have to worry about Wilpon losing control of the losing team.

“Someone who buys Saul’s stake would have no rights,” a source close to the situation said.

And even if a majority of new owners wanted to remove Wilpon as general partner, they would find it very difficult to doso, sources added.

Many Major League teams have general partners who own minority stakes in their teams. Those GPs cannot be forcibly removed.


:x


Is this surprising? Has Saul Katz ever been held out to be someone in a decision-making role? He's clearly just an equity participant in the profits of the business - and quite frankly, most of the "owners" out there are just that - they want to own the revenue stream, not run the operations.

This is why the sale to Einhorn fell apart - he wanted to run the team as the "limited partner", not Fred.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Found this doozy in an old article too:

Quote:
However, no matter how badly long-suffering Mets fans would like to see the cash-strapped Wilpon ride off into the sunset, the team’s ownership structure almost guarantees Wilpon staying in control of the team, The Post has learned.

Wilpon is the sole Mets managing general partner, and that means even if his family’s share of the team gets reduced to a minority stake, he will continue to run the club, sources close to the situation said.

Katz, who serves as the president of the team, quickly denied the report.

“There is no truth to the reports of any intention of selling,” he said. “I have no intention of selling my share of the Mets, nor have I ever had any intention of selling my share.”

While a sale may not be in his current plans, Katz does not have to worry about Wilpon losing control of the losing team.

“Someone who buys Saul’s stake would have no rights,” a source close to the situation said.

And even if a majority of new owners wanted to remove Wilpon as general partner, they would find it very difficult to doso, sources added.

Many Major League teams have general partners who own minority stakes in their teams. Those GPs cannot be forcibly removed.


:x


Is this surprising? Has Saul Katz ever been held out to be someone in a decision-making role? He's clearly just an equity participant in the profits of the business - and quite frankly, most of the "owners" out there are just that - they want to own the revenue stream, not run the operations.

This is why the sale to Einhorn fell apart - he wanted to run the team as the "limited partner", not Fred.


Right, but the article seems to even suggest that should the Wilpon share get diluted to a minority stake, they'd still be the managing partner. I guess its like the way the Yankees are structured with the Steinbreners.......except without the commitment to winning.

What would be interesting would be Cohen buying Saul's share (24%?) and buying up all the minority shares (28%).

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"Reyes is a virus" guy is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:58 pm 
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What am I not understanding here? Why would any perspective owner have any interest in a “majority stake” if Feed would remain in charge? Let’s prtend 51% of the Mets is worth 1 billion. Why would ever pay that to then not be the decision maker? Wouldn’t it be a case of the Meta majority stake is not “sellable” without Fred being out? Who invests that kind of money without final say?

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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:02 pm 
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July 2, 2015: The Mets dropped to .500 (40-40) after a 6-1 loss to Jake Arrietta and the Cubs. The Mets lineup "boasted" Darrell (222/290/302)Ceciliani, Eric (167/282/258) Campbell and Johnny (167/194/200) Monell and a PH appearance by John (188/250/365) Mayberry Jr.

The fan revolt then was really gathering momentum as the team had been floundering for years and couldn't even put a major league lineup on the field. "Sell The Team" billboards had been up for a few months and "Fire Sandy" was the narrative of the day.

We all know what happened next.

The point is, that the Wilpons can always go back to that its-always-darkest-before-the-dawn place. Who's to say the walking wounded can't all get healthy at once, the prospects develop and maybe that missing needed piece falls into their laps again?

This is just the way it is. They're not selling, they're not spending. And they don't care what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
What am I not understanding here? Why would any perspective owner have any interest in a “majority stake” if Feed would remain in charge? Let’s prtend 51% of the Mets is worth 1 billion. Why would ever pay that to then not be the decision maker? Wouldn’t it be a case of the Meta majority stake is not “sellable” without Fred being out? Who invests that kind of money without final say?


Well the valuation would be discounted for lack of control, so a purely financial investor who has no interest in anything other than future revenue streams could still be interested. Pretty sure ownership groups around the game are chock full of majority owners with a limited partner interest.

However, lets be real: no "outsider" is buying in to partner with Fred. if Saul sells his stake, its almost certainly going to be to a friendly face. Einhorn was a case under different circumstances, in 2011, when they needed capital. Now they're on safer footing.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:39 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
So I was reading old articles about the Wilpons selling minority shares in 2012. It turns out that when they structured the minority stakes ($20m each for 4% of team), the minority investors were not required to pay up in capital calls. Maybe someone in finance can explain the ramifications but as a layman, this has to be a huge hindrance on payroll if they Wilpons are the only ones putting money in the team.

Also, take this with a grain of salt but one MMO poster has speculated the payroll is frozen because Saul is about to sell his share.

Here's hoping Steven Cohen somehow steals the franchise away from the Wilpons!

Frankly, at this point and with what the Marlins sold for, it wouldn't surprise me if the Pons were considering a sale. Now that attention is on them and it seems clear that they cannot (or are not willing) compete at the level they should be at, the time could be right. If the wheels start to come off, they may want to get out before another down period comes.


They’re not going to sell the team at the very least till they can get back their Madoff money.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2017-2018 Offseason News Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:47 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
What am I not understanding here? Why would any perspective owner have any interest in a “majority stake” if Feed would remain in charge? Let’s prtend 51% of the Mets is worth 1 billion. Why would ever pay that to then not be the decision maker? Wouldn’t it be a case of the Meta majority stake is not “sellable” without Fred being out? Who invests that kind of money without final say?


Well the valuation would be discounted for lack of control, so a purely financial investor who has no interest in anything other than future revenue streams could still be interested. Pretty sure ownership groups around the game are chock full of majority owners with a limited partner interest.

However, lets be real: no "outsider" is buying in to partner with Fred. if Saul sells his stake, its almost certainly going to be to a friendly face. Einhorn was a case under different circumstances, in 2011, when they needed capital. Now they're on safer footing.

Right but I think what he's getting at is that having the Pons remain as managing partner means having to accept the way they run the team and it's doubtful an equity investor putting up that kind of scratch is doing so w/o wanting to run it more aggressively.


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