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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:44 pm 
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R Nitelight wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:



My objection to the Yankees and Dodgers is on principal. It's bad for baseball to let 2 teams employ so big an advantage.


The Dodgers haven't won the World Series since 1988, and we've played in more since.


8)


The Dodgers were purchased in 2012. 2013-2017 (5 years), their worst season they won 91 games. They won their division 5 years in a row. They also have a strong farm system. They're the National League Yankees.

If you were to bet money on which team will win a world series next - the mets or the Dodgers, after you stop laughing at the question, which team would you pick?

I know who Vegas would pick: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/21 ... -superbook

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm 
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piazzafan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
The Mets lost another generation of young fans.


That's one thing people don't seem to understand. The more the Yanks acquire superstars the more fans they get, the more money they get, which leads to them acquiring more superstars and getting more fans. At some point the Mets are going to have to spend to keep up, or just move the franchise out of NYC.

And I really can't people are okay with the Mets acquiring Walker, Kinsler or Kipnis. Those guys are either old, injury prone or both. The Mets are hoping to get them cheaply because they are flawed and then they will act like "injuries are part of the game" when these guys inevitably decline or do on the DL again.


I think almost everybody understands that. But if George Steinbrenner had past away in 2011, not 2010 and if Hank had to pay 35% tax on his inheritance, the Yankees wouldn't be spending like they are now. They'd face more normal decisions. The problem comes down to MLB. They have a rich get richer system. The NBA and NFL have systems where all teams have a legit shot. MLB has a permanent unbalance where teams with both money and a nich have too big advantage.

The Cards have an advantage too, but it's not gross the way the Yanks and Dodgers are.

It's such a joke. The Yankees idea of "rebuilding" is getting below the $197 million luxury tax threshold. Like 24 teams out of 32 would kill to have a $197 payroll.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Not sure why the Mets would prefer Harrison...Carig reported interest...over Castro.

Walk rates for both are pretty yucky.

I'm not sure I prefer any of the options being bandied about over Neil Walker...and I'm not sure he's the answer either.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:09 pm 
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I just don't think we have the bodies to give up pitching for hitting.


8)

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8)


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:26 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
As I mentioned earlier this offseason, only 1 team wins at the end. If you measure every season by that team is the only team that was worth anything, then sure, you have these weird theories floating around that since the only NY team to make it to a WS in the 2010's is the Mets, the Mets have had a better decade.

But we all know thats nonsense.

The Yankees have been to the playoffs in 21/23 years. In the 2 years they missed, they were at least in a race in September. They are relevant every offseason, seeking to aggressively address whatever issues they have to ensure whatever result they had the previous year, they improve.

The Mets go through a 1-2 year stretch of contention every decade. When things go south, they decide a years-long process is required to reset. When things go right, its short-lived because they'll never spent to supplement the competitive core, and success is fleeting.

I don't care what the total WS tallies are. There is literally no competition here as far as fan entertainment is concerned.

The hilarious thing is Sandy repeats this "baseball is entertainment" mantra often, but is ironically one of the least entertaining executives in the game as far as the approach he leads.


Amen

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:42 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Why is it hysterical for a Met fan to have envy of the way the Yanks do things?


5 year rebuild for a 1 yr wonder

vs.

5 month rebuild for a dynasty



I cannot fathom how a Mets fan wouldn't be hysterically envious.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
The Mets lost another generation of young fans.


Hyperbole some would say.

But I think you're on point, Ralf.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:45 pm 
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R Nitelight wrote:
I just don't think we have the bodies to give up pitching for hitting.


8)


If they turned around and signed pitching, I guess...

If they traded Matz for a young controllable hitter, they could feasibly re-allocate the money toward a pitcher.

I still think the smart money/assets is spent on a controllable CF. I would offer up Matz for Piscotty+, or Ramos+ for Pollock+, or something of the sort. Second base can be filled relatively easily via FA.

They seem hell bent on a bad outfielder/first baseman which will shrink the expenditures elsewhere, though...dumb...dumb...dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
I still think the smart money/assets is spent on a controllable CF. I would offer up Matz for Piscotty+, or Ramos+ for Pollock+, or something of the sort. Second base can be filled relatively easily via FA.



C'mon, J-dawg. That's too creative and probably too expensive (the FA) for Sandy and the 'Pons.


But even if they made those moves it only be just enough for "meaningful games in September" more than trying to bring a World Championship to Queens. :?

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
Forget what the Yankees are doing. Our front office watched a flawed team all season and still doesn’t have a plan. It’s a bunch of maybe we could do this and let’s see how the market shapes up for that. How about targeting specific players? How about prioritizing guys at a specific position? They don’t even operate like a small market team. They are shopping at the clearance rack at Walmart hoping to find useful items.

Yep. The Yankees take advantage of opportunities. I don't blame the Yankees for doing stuff that gets teed up for them. Too many people here are perturbed bc the Mets don't play in the same end of the sandbox as the Yankees. The Mets can be successful playing in their own end of the sandbox but the problem is they don't want to ever go near the sandbox. And they're always playing catch up because of it. They're content with finishing 2nd or 3rd, and it's infuriating.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:13 pm 
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I'm always interested in how a story gets told and becomes a version of the "truth". Will the NY media slam Jeter and Marlin ownership in general for these trades as blatant acts of bad faith? Or will the Jeter halo protect him from criticism? When I first heard the story of the now notorious Eli "benching", my first thought was, "Wow, a coach told a player what the plan was and the player basically said, 'I'm not going along with it' and refused to play". Of course, that never became the story and therefore the "truth" became something different. I wonder how this story will be told.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:26 am 
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R Nitelight wrote:
I'm very confused at this 'Long Suffering Met Fan' thing.

We were doing quite well until our rotation exploded.



8)


Really? You're one of the biggest complainers. Get the feeling you only like 3 guys on the team, one of them being Wilmer Flores which is still mind boggling.


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