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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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R Nitelight wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Waiting around to find one player that can "carry a team" is not a winning strategy. The Mets need to fortify their supporting cast in order to add marginal wins.


An infield of Gonzalez/Cabrera/Rosario/Cozart doesn't scream win-now.


8)


I don't think those championing Cozart would be supporting the acquisition of Gonzalez as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Trade for Kipnis, sign Bruce. Next year, AsCab's and DW's (it has to finally happen, right?) money are off the books, which pays your way to Donaldson. Both of those teams can win.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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R Nitelight wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Waiting around to find one player that can "carry a team" is not a winning strategy. The Mets need to fortify their supporting cast in order to add marginal wins.


An infield of Gonzalez/Cabrera/Rosario/Cozart doesn't scream win-now.


8)

It's better than w/o Cozart.

So what does this all really mean? You want a full tear down? They've got ostensibly 3 cheap star players plus whatever Cespedes is and 4 expensive bullpen arms. That seems like a core they should be adding to, not tearing down yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Cozart is not a game changer by himself, unless you believe his 2017 was real, which I don't; per Statcast, he had one of the largest gaps in MLB in wOBA and xwOBA. But he's still an above average regular at worst, and the Mets could use more of those, especially in the infield where I can't confidently say anyone on the current roster can put up an average season in 2018.

If you plugged in Santana for Smith and moved Cabrera to 2B to accommodate Cozart at 3B (or Cozart for Rosario and acquired a 3B or 2B), that's probably along the lines of a 4-5 win upgrade, which would be a pretty big deal in the Mets' situation. Round out a few more roster edges (Jarrod Dyson in CF, a reunion with Addison Reed, an average starting pitcher - all of these things are attainable on short-term deals and under $15M AAV) and things suddenly wouldn't look so gloomy.

Your largest commitment would be the Santana deal, which looks like a bargain. Smith pretty much becomes a trade asset only at that point, which would be okay with me since I'm not really a believer there.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:17 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
It's better than w/o Cozart.

So what does this all really mean? You want a full tear down? They've got ostensibly 3 cheap star players plus whatever Cespedes is and 4 expensive bullpen arms. That seems like a core they should be adding to, not tearing down yet.


I'm not opposed to adding.

I'm opposed to where they're shopping, and what their shopping parameters are.

They should stop trying to jam square pegs into round holes. If you want a 3B, get a 3b. And stop with the fading veterans whose only appeal i that they drop into our price range. Target young players you hope might get better instead of old players you hope won't get worse.


8)

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8)


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:18 pm 
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nmigliore wrote:
Cozart is not a game changer by himself, unless you believe his 2017 was real, which I don't; per Statcast, he had one of the largest gaps in MLB in wOBA and xwOBA. But he's still an above average regular at worst,


This is really the key, and that he came at a value price.

Cozart plus Duda plus a LHed pen arm and I would have been ok going to battle with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:19 pm 
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I for one can't wait for the Mets to include David Wright's salary (which is 75% covered by insurance) into their payroll figures when talking to the writers #Mets

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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R Nitelight wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
It's better than w/o Cozart.

So what does this all really mean? You want a full tear down? They've got ostensibly 3 cheap star players plus whatever Cespedes is and 4 expensive bullpen arms. That seems like a core they should be adding to, not tearing down yet.


I'm not opposed to adding.

I'm opposed to where they're shopping, and what their shopping parameters are.

They should stop trying to jam square pegs into round holes. If you want a 3B, get a 3b. And stop with the fading veterans whose only appeal i that they drop into our price range. Target young players you hope might get better instead of old players you hope won't get worse.


Cozart was a 5 win player last season. Even if he regresses, he's still likely a 3+ win player. The Mets shouldn't be turning those players away.

And if not pursuing the best options in their price range, then they may as well close up shop. They already have 3 young and cheap star players. It's probably not going to get any better than that at any one time.

Otherwise, how are they going to add good young players when they don't have valuable trade assets? The young players they would be adding would be flawed or come loaded with question marks. I'm not opposed to that, but they should be approaching this winter with a sense of urgency since their window is going to close before they know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
I for one can't wait for the Mets to include David Wright's salary (which is 75% covered by insurance) into their payroll figures when talking to the writers #Mets


Exactly. Just the Wilpon's insulting the intelligence of the fans once again.

What else is new?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:07 pm 
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I personally would rebuild but because they are not... I find HK's suggestion Merrifield very intriguing depending on the cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Gotta love the bs they gave us at the trade deadline last year that all of the money coming off the books was going to be put back into the team this year. There's nothing worse than a team (owners) that are more concerned about the bottom line than the product on the field and winning championships. Common sense would believe that it takes money to make money...

I can take a franchise that attempts to put a good product on the field, but fails. I can't take a franchise that won't even try to win. Right now, I don't see why I should spend a single penny on this franchise next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Meetings (Attempt II)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
I personally would rebuild but because they are not... I find HK's suggestion Merrifield very intriguing depending on the cost.


I don't think you have to rebuild with this potential healthy starting pitching. What they should be looking for is younger long-term solutions instead of constantly plugging in cheap veterans in an attempt to turn your 82 win team into an 84 win team and learning nothing in the process.


8)

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8)


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