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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:01 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
northway wrote:

Duda is a league average first baseman, so this makes sense.


When healthy.


Considering that Mike Napoli is literally a net negative, the fact that he can stay on the field doesn't really work in his favor.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Napoli could not possibly be a worse option than he is unless he hit lefty. He's 36 and has been in decline for years. He doesn't offer positional versatility either. K-rate is absurd, doesn't get on base. I mean if you told me Napoli was invited to ST by the Rangers 2 weeks into ST it might make some sense as a "why not?" as a Mets 1b target... wowzas. I think 2 position players 36 or older were worth 2+ fWAR last year... Granderson and Nelson Cruz.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
Napoli could not possibly be a worse option than he is unless he hit lefty. He's 36 and has been in decline for years. He doesn't offer positional versatility either. K-rate is absurd, doesn't get on base. I mean if you told me Napoli was invited to ST by the Rangers 2 weeks into ST it might make some sense as a "why not?" as a Mets 1b target... wowzas. I think 2 position players 36 or older were worth 2+ fWAR last year... Granderson and Nelson Cruz.


So, an offensive monster who doesn't have to play the field (and was a juicer) and a guy who started his career on the super-athlete side of the athletic spectrum. Age curves done changed.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Did fans expect them to do something? I wasn’t aware. I thought people had accepted this organization as being second rate and timid by now


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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Ciarán wrote:
Did fans expect them to do something? I wasn’t aware. I thought people had accepted this organization as being second rate and timid by now


My two cents on this (being my thread and all).

There's lots to like going into 2018. Healthy Familia Healthy Thor, Healthy Wright (hehe, just wanted to see if you were paying attention). We have an interesting SS. Conforto (hopefully returns to form), he's a legit stud. Plawecki finally started to hit (he might be better than the backup catchers we've carried in recent years). The Bullpen's been fixed and deepened. Our manager seems well respected, even if it's his first time managing, there's a lot of people saying he'll be good at the job.

So, yeah - there's stuff I like and lets not forget, they're finally out of Vegas. (OK, that's 2019 not 18 but it's a done deal). There's reasons to look up.

On the down side . . . The stuff I'm reading about the Coupons, I mean, Wilpons, part of me wishes the owners we have go down in flames. I know they're not going to sell the team and I know they are so concerned about budget right now that they approve every move Sandy makes.

And it would so serve the Wilpons right if this team misses the playoffs by a game or two and those wins can be traced back to not spending 15 or 20 million to build a better team.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:10 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Ciarán wrote:
Did fans expect them to do something? I wasn’t aware. I thought people had accepted this organization as being second rate and timid by now


My two cents on this (being my thread and all).

There's lots to like going into 2018. Healthy Familia Healthy Thor, Healthy Wright (hehe, just wanted to see if you were paying attention). We have an interesting SS. Conforto (hopefully returns to form), he's a legit stud. Plawecki finally started to hit (he might be better than the backup catchers we've carried in recent years). The Bullpen's been fixed and deepened. Our manager seems well respected, even if it's his first time managing, there's a lot of people saying he'll be good at the job.

So, yeah - there's stuff I like and lets not forget, they're finally out of Vegas. (OK, that's 2019 not 18 but it's a done deal). There's reasons to look up.

On the down side . . . The stuff I'm reading about the Coupons, I mean, Wilpons, part of me wishes the owners we have go down in flames. I know they're not going to sell the team and I know they are so concerned about budget right now that they approve every move Sandy makes.

And it would so serve the Wilpons right if this team misses the playoffs by a game or two and those wins can be traced back to not spending 15 or 20 million to build a better team.


There's a lot to like but they're probably an 82 win team, 87 if everything breaks right. That doesn't win the division.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:12 am 
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northway wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Ciarán wrote:
Did fans expect them to do something? I wasn’t aware. I thought people had accepted this organization as being second rate and timid by now


My two cents on this (being my thread and all).

There's lots to like going into 2018. Healthy Familia Healthy Thor, Healthy Wright (hehe, just wanted to see if you were paying attention). We have an interesting SS. Conforto (hopefully returns to form), he's a legit stud. Plawecki finally started to hit (he might be better than the backup catchers we've carried in recent years). The Bullpen's been fixed and deepened. Our manager seems well respected, even if it's his first time managing, there's a lot of people saying he'll be good at the job.

So, yeah - there's stuff I like and lets not forget, they're finally out of Vegas. (OK, that's 2019 not 18 but it's a done deal). There's reasons to look up.

On the down side . . . The stuff I'm reading about the Coupons, I mean, Wilpons, part of me wishes the owners we have go down in flames. I know they're not going to sell the team and I know they are so concerned about budget right now that they approve every move Sandy makes.

And it would so serve the Wilpons right if this team misses the playoffs by a game or two and those wins can be traced back to not spending 15 or 20 million to build a better team.


There's a lot to like but they're probably an 82 win team, 87 if everything breaks right. That doesn't win the division.


Which is really the problem a lot of us have with their passive approach this offseason. They still have enough talent to challenge for a postseason berth again if they actually tried to supplement a couple of things. But they're content with being a day late and a dollar short and praying on overachieving and perfect health.


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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:13 am 
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^ ^ ^

Agree with the two posts above, and things could go bad too. I could see another 72-77 win season if there's some issues. But 82-87 if healthy sounds about right, clearly not ideal.

If a win costs $10 million, it costs 100 million to turn a league average team into a playoff team. I understand the WIlpons not wanting to spend 80 million this off-season, but realistically 70-80 million might be what's needed to get this team really looking like a playoff team.

I don't particularly like Gordon but he costs 12 million per year. Santana signed with Philly for 3 years 60. We got a good relief pitcher at 2 years 7. Sign a guy like Cain and a pitcher like Darvish (15 million per or there abouts).

12 + 20 + 7 + 15 + 15 = 69 million.

But I'd like our chances if we had Santana at 1st, Gordon at 2nd, Cain in CF and Darvish as our #3 pitcher. If you want to cut it to 60, don't sign Santana and sign Duda 1 year 10. - 59 million spent. Add to the 120 coming into the year - 180 million in contracts. (yeah right).

Fixing the team with 15-25 to spend - mucho harder.

I seem to be derailing my own thread though, but I don't want to throw in the towel just cause the salary is in the 135-140 range. It's just harder to address all the needs.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:43 am 
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Historically the Mets have fallen fast and hard. As soon as things start to go bad they can never adjust and right the ship. Unfortunately I see a repeat in history.

Have they ever bounced back from a sub-500 season which immediately followed multiple winning seasons? I don’t think they ever have. They just continued to fall hard and the cycle of the Mets repeats itself.


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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:57 am 
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dragonfly wrote:
Historically the Mets have fallen fast and hard. As soon as things start to go bad they can never adjust and right the ship. Unfortunately I see a repeat in history.

Have they ever bounced back from a sub-500 season which immediately followed multiple winning seasons? I don’t think they ever have. They just continued to fall hard and the cycle of the Mets repeats itself.


Its tough to adjust when you don't believe in signing free agents or making trades, because:

1. Free agents cost money and years, and the ones that don't aren't worth our time/effort.

2. Trades cost prospects, and we hate giving up prospects. Or, conversely, we don't have any prospects to give. Ostensibly, you could always counter that by taking on more money, but see number 1 above.

There are minor trades, waiver claims, etc - but we don't believe in them either because 40 man inflexibility I think - I still don't get that one, but thats my best bet.

So yeah, the reason why this happens in this manner, is that by and large, rosters remain mostly static year to year - so when things start to go bad, the only plan is that the same guys all just turn their fortunes around. And, usually, there's a reason why things go bad. But that doesn't stop us from still believing Matt Harvey's got that TOR upside, or previously that Jason Bay was just a hot streak away from figuring it out, or before that that Carlos Delgado was going to come back better than ever, or before that that Roberto Alomar and Mo Vaughn just needed a year to adjust to NY, and so on and so forth.


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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:46 am 
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Honestly, as long as Dom/Amed are in the lineup, Thor and deGrom are pitching and Conforto comes back healthy, Cespedes shows up with his bat, etc...it'll be interesting. Honestly, the only guys I wanted to add were not possibilities, I guess...Pollock, Donaldson.

I am pretty excited to see new management in the dugout; that's an interest point.

If a few of the pen arms from last year's trades make their way, that will be interesting. Also, I am hoping Kyle Regnault and Oswalt get some looks.

I'll have a fun year...it's baseball and I love my Mets.

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 Post subject: Re: A positive spin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 am 
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At this point there isn't a reason on earth to sign a player whose sole attraction is they work cheap.

Better players will be pushed out of jobs at the end of Spring Training. Hopefully Sandy isn't napping then too.


8)

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