MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:38 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Manager

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm
Posts: 6619
LTKfRGM wrote:
AllWrightNow wrote:
Even if you want to believe that, Sandy doesn’t have to take the money to be a corporate stooge, whatever we all think of him as a Met GM he’s still Sandy Anderson a respected figure in baseball, not some flunkie who only has a job because of sucking up to Fred and Jeff.

If he’s an active participant in the team stinking he should be ripped, if he’s a figurehead he should be ripped for taking a check and being a complicit corporate stooge.


There are other explanations than the ones you present.

1) He's well paid but the Wilpons don't want to announce what they're paying him when payroll is being cut.

2) he took less money than he could have gotten elsewhere because he wants to win here and maybe he just likes New York.

and on being a stooge, maybe Sandy wants to thread the needle and win with a $130 million payroll. Even if the Ponzi's are bad owners, that doesn't make Sandy a stooge. He might enjoy the challenge.

We all think the Wilpons suck, but Sandy gets a pass on the payroll. You can question his moves if you like, but he came here knowing payroll was limited. He accepted the job knowing that his job was to win with a tight budget. Seems silly to trash him for that now when it was the job he was hired into.


Other explanations for what? I was arguing against the idea that Sandy is completely blameless if he is just a figurehead when he signed multiple extensions to stay with this ownership knowing the deal here and still has a higher payroll than some GM’s. Why should I look on Sandy taking a check to be a figurehead any differently than I would a player just going through the motions to cash a check? The Wilpons problems weren’t suddenly foisted on him the way they were on 2010 when he first got here.

For the record I don’t believe Sandy is a total figurehead either, no more than any other GM with a $120 million or less payroll. He has no reason other than money to be one at 70 years of age, he can pretty much have any job in baseball he wants including other GM jobs. That’s why I don’t believe he’s a figurehead. But if he is, he shouldn’t get a pass for life either. Not when he’s a willing figurehead, and repeatedly shows contempt to the fans with cheap humor. This idea that he’s just taking arrows for the Wilpons is nonsense, the Wilpons still take the lion’s share of grief to the point where people like you make Sandy out to be completely powerless.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:42 pm 
Offline
General Manager

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 7196
LTKfRGM wrote:
AllWrightNow wrote:
pennst92 wrote:

This.

Hate on SA all you want, this is, and always will be the Wilpons' team. He is merely a front man...frankly, an effective one, at least in Fred and Jeffie's eyes. And that's all that matters.


Even if you want to believe that, Sandy doesn’t have to take the money to be a corporate stooge, whatever we all think of him as a Met GM he’s still Sandy Anderson a respected figure in baseball, not some flunkie who only has a job because of sucking up to Fred and Jeff.

If he’s an active participant in the team stinking he should be ripped, if he’s a figurehead he should be ripped for taking a check and being a complicit corporate stooge.


There are other explanations than the ones you present.

1) He's well paid but the Wilpons don't want to announce what they're paying him when payroll is being cut.

2) he took less money than he could have gotten elsewhere because he wants to win here and maybe he just likes New York.

and on being a stooge, maybe Sandy wants to thread the needle and win with a $130 million payroll. Even if the Ponzi's are bad owners, that doesn't make Sandy a stooge. He might enjoy the challenge.

We all think the Wilpons suck, but Sandy gets a pass on the payroll. You can question his moves if you like, but he came here knowing payroll was limited. He accepted the job knowing that his job was to win with a tight budget. Seems silly to trash him for that now when it was the job he was hired into.


I'm sorry, but then he gets ripped even more. Screw him if my enjoyment is derailed by his ego trip. (not that I think this is really his goal)

_________________
Sell EVERYTHING. Sell Sell Sell
Yes this is necessary.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:00 pm 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 59684
AllWrightNow wrote:

Other explanations for what? I was arguing against the idea that Sandy is completely blameless if he is just a figurehead when he signed multiple extensions to stay with this ownership knowing the deal here and still has a higher payroll than some GM’s. Why should I look on Sandy taking a check to be a figurehead any differently than I would a player just going through the motions to cash a check? The Wilpons problems weren’t suddenly foisted on him the way they were on 2010 when he first got here.



Completely agree. The "Poor Sandy" narratives stopped being believable a few years ago. If the story is that Sandy was doing his boy Bud Selig a solid by bringing some short-term credibility to a franchise that Bud wanted to curb the bad PR against his other buddies, the Wilpons, while they found their footing, thats a plan that expires in 2014 or 2015 - if the work environment is such that Sandy is being held hostage and made to "take the fall" for things he is vehemently against. Not signing continued extensions into his 70s.

The only believable scenarios at this point are that:

1. Sandy enjoys working here.

2. Sandy likes the $$ he gets paid more than any specific philosophy about GM'ing and isn't being "held hostage" as much as he is being allowed to cash a paycheck for being a figurehead - which makes him as complicit in this as anyone, if you believe there might be someone out there who would either challenge the Wilpons' strategies or at least work a bit harder under the restraints in areas that don't require huge financial outlays.

3. Sandy wants to be a GM and doesn't think he'll get another GM job if he leaves this one, which sort of puts a chink in the old "He's an amazing GM and everyone knows it and its just the Wilpons holding him back."


THAT ALL BEING SAID - far be it for me to criticize the guy for a) cashing in and b) continuing to stay on as a GM for as long as he can. Fully support both of those and I'm not going to kill him for taking an extension as though he "owes" it to Met fans or anyone to protest the Wilpons or whatever.

I just posit, and have for a while, he's not a very good GM - at least in today's game. The pace of it all, the economic shifts, etc. makes it very different than the late 80's game where he was a "maverick" because he used analytics to sneakily value guys more than his competitors did - everyone has that information now, and his linear approach to things, his need to win every negotiation, etc., doesn't fly when everyone is "on" the same guys and trades are getting negotiated with multiple suitors in real time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:16 pm 
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 12003
Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Wow. I had no idea I was saying anything remotely controversial.

_________________
Why is Santa always so jolly?
Because he knows where all the naughty girls live.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:45 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Rookie

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 711
LTKfRGM wrote:
Wow. I had no idea I was saying anything remotely controversial.


I think what is controversial is the total lack of action on Sandy's part, coupled with the walking back of statements that he made in September/October about improving the club.

Like many of us, I agree with his philosophy about not paying a player (especially one on the wrong side of 32) for what he did with another team, at least not for more than a year. I can understand, but not necessarily like, the apparent fact that they don't have the budget to take on a player for 5 years for north of $90M.

So make other moves instead. Trade Lagares to Seattle for Dee Gordon. Move Ramos for a 2B and sign a reliever. Put a deal together with Texas for Profar. Roll the dice and swap Harvey for somebody else's up-and-comer. These are mainly revenue-neutral moves that you'd expect from a more energetic GM.

Part of what made the last 6 weeks or so of the 2017 season bearable was some of Sandy's comments about addressing the team's needs this offseason. Instead, we've got this.

The extension smells like a payoff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:03 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Prospect

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:22 am
Posts: 258
Location: Corona, NY
"Oh Sandy, the NL East is rising above us!"

_________________
To err is human. To forgive is a Mets fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:07 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 pm
Posts: 38455
Location: Panic City
The 1% Wilpons giving their tax savings right back to the working man.



8)

_________________
Whatever.

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:17 pm 
Offline
Fan Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:14 am
Posts: 1839
I have to agree, Sandy is not a good GM. If anything trading for a billion relief pitchers and not trading for any bats shows how inept he is. I'm curious to hear what names he turned down from the Yankees in the scrapped Jay Bruce deal. Even the bat he refused from Seattle for Duda (O'neil I think), was better than any of the other players we actually got from the teams we did make trades with. The Wilpons are horrible but Sandy Alderson is just clueless. He really has no plan whatsoever. And if it's true that the Wilpons didn't give him a budget then you know what? Just sign players anyway. If the Wilpons get their panties in a bunch then just "tell the truth" to the press. "They didn't give me a budget so I assumed the money was there to spend". How would the Wilpon's defend that one?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:08 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Manager

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm
Posts: 6619
piazzafan wrote:
I have to agree, Sandy is not a good GM. If anything trading for a billion relief pitchers and not trading for any bats shows how inept he is. I'm curious to hear what names he turned down from the Yankees in the scrapped Jay Bruce deal. Even the bat he refused from Seattle for Duda (O'neil I think), was better than any of the other players we actually got from the teams we did make trades with. The Wilpons are horrible but Sandy Alderson is just clueless. He really has no plan whatsoever. And if it's true that the Wilpons didn't give him a budget then you know what? Just sign players anyway. If the Wilpons get their panties in a bunch then just "tell the truth" to the press. "They didn't give me a budget so I assumed the money was there to spend". How would the Wilpon's defend that one?


Fun little hypothetical: If the Carlos Gomez trade goes through does Sandy still have a job? It's not likely they make the postseason in '15 or '16 if they don't luck into Cespedes (at the cost of Fulmer), and that would have been seven straight years out of the postseason assuming he finished out his last contract.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:10 pm 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Hall of Famer

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 5256
I’m not surprised at all. The problem has always been ownership and their clueless, always behind the Times mode of thinking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:47 am 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 23819
Location: Pittsburgh
TomInNC wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Sandy - "I feel we have some unfinished business"

What's that? Sucking the life out of the very last positive fans they have left?


Now... don't be cynical. [-X


Hard not to be. I was one of the last "it's entertainment for me", "play competitive games and I'm ok" kind of fans.

So I'm angry at them for ruining that with their apparent lack of effort or will


I've moved past anger into something that's a mix of gallows humor and complete apathy. More the latter.

_________________
Baseball has a way of ripping your ❤️ out, stabbing it, putting it back in your chest, then healing itself just in time for Spring Training. - Thor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mets announce contract extension for Sandy
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:52 am 
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 23819
Location: Pittsburgh
chinabox wrote:
From a baseball perspective, it's weird to give a guy an extension coming off a bad season where the farm is barren and no movement is being made.

But then again, this move wasn't made for baseball reasons.

Fall guy from day 1.

(P.S. I believe he is both the fall guy and not doing his job well.)


Rewarding bad performance is weird from most perspectives.

_________________
Baseball has a way of ripping your ❤️ out, stabbing it, putting it back in your chest, then healing itself just in time for Spring Training. - Thor


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], HeyNowHK, MarkJohnson>You, northway, sluger11787, tejdog1 and 124 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


SUPPORT NYFS VIA OUR NETWORK OF SITES: FIND AN AA MEETING | FIND A JOB NEAR YOU | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | HOME REPAIR CONTRACTOR BUILDER AC HEAT | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT AND RESOURCES | THE SOULCIALISTS LIVE LOCAL PIANO MUSIC TREASURE COAST | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT NEAR YOU | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GOLF BEACH RESORT HOTELS RESTAURANTS BED BREAKFAST | HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | METRO BUS TRAIN SUBWAY AIRPORT HELIPORT | VETERAN TIPS CRAFT DIY RECIPES | ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS NEAR YOU | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL HEALTHY HEART DIABETIC RESTAURANTS AND STORES | CHURCH TEMPLE MOSQUE OR PLACE OF WORSHIP NEAR YOU | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB | SUICIDE HOTLINE DANIELLE COLBERT PHOTO MUG SHOT | © Untraditional Media

The%20Soulcialists