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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:44 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Duquette is a joke. Talk to me when he isn’t kissing ownerships ass or offering cover for them.

I tend to buy what he's selling more than I do from Carig.


Given that Duquette was once usurped for Omar, would seem if anything he would have bias the other way here.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:29 pm 
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maxlongstreet wrote:
I have some issues with Sandy, but the idea that Omar was supposedly a better drafter seems to have no basis in reality to me.



Not necessarily disagreeing, but keep in mind that Sandy's drafts had a more "level playing field" because of the signing bonus caps on every team.


Omar was practically told to spend much less on the draft than other teams because of the Wilpon's loyalty to Bud Selig.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Sherman

Quote:
Alderson was not on the conference call. He told me he was in San Diego getting dentistry work. But his absence felt symbolic, as if he were detached from this moment — phone service, after all, reaches to the West Coast and Novocaine wears off. Alderson just re-upped for two more years and understands the Mets’ inner-workings, so he is not going to take Wilpon money and then speak ill of how the organization functions.

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Original drummer for the Wilpons Are Cheap.
"Reyes is a virus" guy is right.
R Nitelight on 7/16/2018 wrote:
I honestly don't care about winning or losing.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Jim Duquette is a joke. He has zero credibility, he's an a**kissing sycophant

How about taking a stand against this garbage? Your entire regime as GM is remembered for trading away Kazmir when there were 190,473 voices in the GMs office. You have such little pride that you're still covering up for these weasels 13.5 years later?

Kiss off Jimmy.

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Terry Collins cost the Mets a World Series title.

The Wilpons are the worst owners in worldwide professional sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:02 am 
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Daaaarryyl wrote:
maxlongstreet wrote:
I have some issues with Sandy, but the idea that Omar was supposedly a better drafter seems to have no basis in reality to me.



Not necessarily disagreeing, but keep in mind that Sandy's drafts had a more "level playing field" because of the signing bonus caps on every team.


Omar was practically told to spend much less on the draft than other teams because of the Wilpon's loyalty to Bud Selig.
Aside from the drafts, he seemed to look outside the US a lot more.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:52 am 
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I never doubted that Omar was trying to put an exciting team on the field.

I've never felt that for a second about Sandy.


8)

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Whatever.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Does Omar get credit for drafting Duda, Murphy, deGrom, or would any GM/Scouting dept have had that many hits later in the draft?

If there was a hole left when Depo left and Omar's filling it - I don't see a reason to call that terrible. I'm not a big Omar guy or anything, but maybe he can help.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:51 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Does Omar get credit for drafting Duda, Murphy, deGrom, or would any GM/Scouting dept have had that many hits later in the draft?


If any GM would have had that many hits later in the draft, it says more about Sandy than it does about Omar.

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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:55 pm 
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northway wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Does Omar get credit for drafting Duda, Murphy, deGrom, or would any GM/Scouting dept have had that many hits later in the draft?


If any GM would have had that many hits later in the draft, it says more about Sandy than it does about Omar.


First pick results for Omar were not a shoe-in for excellence. Nor second picks. I think the later round surprises were more about progressing to the mean in karma.

2005-Pelfrey
2006-Mulvey
2007-Vineyard, Kunz
2008-Ike, Havens
2009-Matz
2010-Harvey

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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Quote:
Mike Puma
‏@NYPost_Mets
Dec 22
More
There are some individuals in Mets ranks upset over Minaya hiring as @MarcCarig said. But bottom line is he is respected by Sandy Alderson and JP Ricciardi and has a very strong relationship with John Ricco. Minaya will be an asset to organization.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:29 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
northway wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
Does Omar get credit for drafting Duda, Murphy, deGrom, or would any GM/Scouting dept have had that many hits later in the draft?


If any GM would have had that many hits later in the draft, it says more about Sandy than it does about Omar.


First pick results for Omar were not a shoe-in for excellence. Nor second picks. I think the later round surprises were more about progressing to the mean in karma.

2005-Pelfrey
2006-Mulvey
2007-Vineyard, Kunz
2008-Ike, Havens
2009-Matz
2010-Harvey


Just to play devils advocate

Pelfrey was seen by many as a good pick. He didn't work out and the guys taken after him would have been way

Mulvey was 2nd round, #62 overall - a handful of 10 war players were picked in the 10-20 picks after him, but mostly it's more miss than hit at #62. He also helped us get Santana.

Kunz & Vineyard were taken late 1st round, 42 and 47. Josh Donaldson was taken #48, but mostly guys taken around there didn't work out.

Ike (18), Havens (22) and Holt (33) - mets had high hopes for that draft. Ike might have been good if not for the Valley Fever (I speculate I admit), but he got off to a solid start prior to that. Havens might have been OK if he'd not been derailed by injuries. Holt - I dunno.

Matz (2nd round, 72 overall) - would be a stud if not for injuries. Might still work out.

Harvey - again, stud if not for injuries. Had some great years.

- - -

I think the real problem with the Omar tenure was all the first round picks the Wilpons gave away. Even when they spent money, they often spent it poorly and lost a lot of early picks in the process.

I think there's enough of a crap shoot factor in the draft and enough of those names listed were late 1st round or 2nd round, that Omar didn't do as bad as people think with his early picks. I think he did OK.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Omar Minaya (Guess What's Inside)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:42 pm 
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I think Pelfrey got hurt from being rushed and feel he would have had a better career with more minor league development time. He did still pitch for a decade which is amazing enough, with a 'couple' of good-decent seasons.

I hated Omar's reliever draft of 2007, that was basically the equivalent of Sandy at the trade deadline last year. But on balance he's come up with good players through the draft and international signings. They aren't always going to come in the first round, especially mid-late first round where we drafted through most of Omar's tenure.


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