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?
Poll ended at Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:25 am
Becerra 20%  20%  [ 3 ]
McNeil 40%  40%  [ 6 ]
McGeorge 40%  40%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:15 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Before the horse gets all the way out of the barn here, I didn't say any of these guys were going to be stars. This is all relative... I'm saying that the Mets appear to have had a couple of solid int'l classes (for them) in 15 and 16 (and if Mauricio is as good as advertised, possibly 17 the best) and given the relative weakness of the system, we could see a bunch of these intl signees eventually taking up big chunks of future Mets top 30s.

So, mostly this is something to file away.



Not disagreeing with anything you are saying. My point is unfortunately we have limited resources when it comes to international players. These resources include bonus (which suggests a team/teams see X talent) and/or mention from places like BA/BP etc. The numbers in the DSL historically show essentially ZERO correlation to even being a major league prospect let alone a good one. My suggestion is one (some) of these guys are worth filing away but I find it very hard to see a real debate for placement on this years list (as bad as the system may be). I mean I think a guy like Woodmansee is terrible but I still think he has more of an argument than these types, Chris Viall? Tiberi almost certainly does (awful pro career so far and all), Matt Cleveland, Lagrange, Rasquin etc etc.

If the idea is "maybe the system looks better next year in part because some of these DSL guys look like real prospects following 2018", I can dig it. But unless someone has some information I haven't seen these are just "guys we don't really know so they must be more interesting than ones we do"

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Before the horse gets all the way out of the barn here, I didn't say any of these guys were going to be stars. This is all relative... I'm saying that the Mets appear to have had a couple of solid int'l classes (for them) in 15 and 16 (and if Mauricio is as good as advertised, possibly 17 the best) and given the relative weakness of the system, we could see a bunch of these intl signees eventually taking up big chunks of future Mets top 30s.

So, mostly this is something to file away.



Not disagreeing with anything you are saying. My point is unfortunately we have limited resources when it comes to international players. These resources include bonus (which suggests a team/teams see X talent) and/or mention from places like BA/BP etc. The numbers in the DSL historically show essentially ZERO correlation to even being a major league prospect let alone a good one. My suggestion is one (some) of these guys are worth filing away but I find it very hard to see a real debate for placement on this years list (as bad as the system may be). I mean I think a guy like Woodmansee is terrible but I still think he has more of an argument than these types, Chris Viall? Tiberi almost certainly does (awful pro career so far and all), Matt Cleveland, Lagrange, Rasquin etc etc.



As you know, those last 2 you mentioned came out of the DSL.

Santana, was a Sterling award winner this year and Metsminors has him at 46, fwiw.


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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:46 pm 
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And the 2016 DSL Sterling award winners included Raul Beracierta (.628 OPS this year), 2015 DSL Lagrange and Nicolas Debora (released), 2014 Jon Mora and Jose Medina. Not exactly a who's who of "see he's a top guy in the system now" or even "a mid-level" one.

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:54 pm 
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If any of the aforementioned guys come stateside and put up seasons akin to Lagrange or Rasquin in 2018 then I would agree they would be in the discussion as "prospects". Right now they are just names.I'll tell you right now there is a 0% chance Metsminors.net has eyes on the ground for Luis Santana (nor did they even claim to). "His 1.55 BB/K was the ninth best in the DSL and his 165 wRC+ ranked fifth." That's all well and good but doesn't tell us much of anything based on the history of production in the DSL... not even taking into account he played 22 games in the DSL in 2016.

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
And the 2016 DSL Sterling award winners included Raul Beracierta (.628 OPS this year), 2015 DSL Lagrange and Nicolas Debora (released), 2014 Jon Mora and Jose Medina. Not exactly a who's who of "see he's a top guy in the system now" or even "a mid-level" one.

Again, I didn't say to look for one of these guys (not named Mauricio) to be a top 3 player in the system (or even top 10) down the road, so there is no need to put words in my mouth. How strange (to quote an oft used Metro remark :wink: )... But seriously, we are just listing some "potentially interesting" names in the 40+ region, so there is no need to get anyone's panties twisted up here. If you disagree, that's fine with me.

And was Debora released? That one is odd since he was a Sterling winner this season again (for Brooklyn this time).

Some players who I didn't realize were released: Yeffrey deAza, Scarlyn Reyes, Luis Mateo, Kurtis Horne, Placido Torres, Leon Byrd, Enmanuel Zabala.


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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:19 pm 
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I am mistaken. Debora wasn't released, similar Scarlyn Reyes was but he's 24 years old going into going into season 8 with the Mets which includes a PED suspension allow me to not consider him a top 50 prospect even a horrible system. I think you are taking past arguments from me and assuming I am disagreeing with you more vehemently than I am. I just fail to see the argument for non-big bonus IFA guys putting up "solid" numbers unless there are circumstances that suggest otherwise (no knock on Metsminors.net) but I don't consider them putting together a statistical "argument" for his inclusion to be that. At least with a guy like Viall (and again I'm not a big Viall guy) he's a huge kid who throws mid-90's, or Tiberi a recent "high" pick. My PERSONAL feeling is I'd wait on these types until next season. If it means that Newton shockingly skyrockets to #14 best prospect in the system, so be it.

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:50 pm 
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High school stats are about as meaningful as DSL stats. And Cameron Planck was a legend in high school, so... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:07 pm 
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How many runoffs has Becerra been in and not won? Gotta be a record.

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
How many runoffs has Becerra been in and not won? Gotta be a record.

I don't understand who (besides you :wink: ) keeps voting for him.


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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:15 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
How many runoffs has Becerra been in and not won? Gotta be a record.

I don't understand who (besides you :wink: ) keeps voting for him.


I feel like people are voting against him because of their disdain for me. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Ralf wrote:
How many runoffs has Becerra been in and not won? Gotta be a record.

I don't understand who (besides you :wink: ) keeps voting for him.


I feel like people are voting against him because of their disdain for me. :lol:


Nah he's just a borderline non-prospect at this point and it's more fun to vote for other guys even if their chances of reaching the majors are about the same of Beccera's.

And seeing him in run-off after run-off is pretty funny. #39 seems to be McGeorge solidly, though.


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 Post subject: Re: #38 runoff Becerra vs. McNeil vs. McGeorge
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
I'd like to nominate

Nelmerson Xavier Mariano Silvano Angela



He throws mid 80's...

Anyway Planck is next, followed by Paez and Carpio.


I didn't really want to nominate him I just like typing (copy/pasting) his name.

Nelmerson Xavier Mariano Silvano Angela

It's a great name.

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