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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:20 pm 
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People are blowing this Gonzalez/Domo thing out of proportion. It has nothing to do with the Mets long term view of Domo. It has to do with not wanting to have two unproven rookies at key positions to start the year. They had to make a choice which one to hedge on and clearly they felt they could accept possible growing pains from SS but not 1B.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
People are blowing this Gonzalez/Domo thing out of proportion. It has nothing to do with the Mets long term view of Domo. It has to do with not wanting to have two unproven rookies at key positions to start the year. They had to make a choice which one to hedge on and clearly they felt they could accept possible growing pains from SS but not 1B.


I agreed with that and would have loved to have Duda back or even someone like Morrison. But if Dom is going to have growing pains, Gonzalez is going to have the exact opposite of that. There's no upside there.

The guy put up a .784 OPS in 2016, was atrocious in 2017, has rated horrendously in the field, and is entering his age-36 season. His floor couldn't be lower and his ceiling is not even high.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:30 pm 
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thebull wrote:
Ralf wrote:
People are blowing this Gonzalez/Domo thing out of proportion. It has nothing to do with the Mets long term view of Domo. It has to do with not wanting to have two unproven rookies at key positions to start the year. They had to make a choice which one to hedge on and clearly they felt they could accept possible growing pains from SS but not 1B.


I agreed with that and would have loved to have Duda back or even someone like Morrison. But if Dom is going to have growing pains, Gonzalez is going to have the exact opposite of that. There's no upside there.

The guy put up a .784 OPS in 2016, was atrocious in 2017, has rated horrendously in the field, and is entering his age-36 season. His floor couldn't be lower and his ceiling is not even high.


Gonzalez is making the league minimum, so the Mets could cut him and then have Bruce and Flores take over if Smith isn't ready.

I don't know if this front office would be that bold, but it's certainly an option.

Depth is always good, and a veteran bat would be nice to stash on the bench, but we're all rightfully worried that this team will overcommit to a single veteran.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
thebull wrote:
Ralf wrote:
People are blowing this Gonzalez/Domo thing out of proportion. It has nothing to do with the Mets long term view of Domo. It has to do with not wanting to have two unproven rookies at key positions to start the year. They had to make a choice which one to hedge on and clearly they felt they could accept possible growing pains from SS but not 1B.


I agreed with that and would have loved to have Duda back or even someone like Morrison. But if Dom is going to have growing pains, Gonzalez is going to have the exact opposite of that. There's no upside there.

The guy put up a .784 OPS in 2016, was atrocious in 2017, has rated horrendously in the field, and is entering his age-36 season. His floor couldn't be lower and his ceiling is not even high.


Gonzalez is making the league minimum, so the Mets could cut him and then have Bruce and Flores take over if Smith isn't ready.

I don't know if this front office would be that bold, but it's certainly an option.

Depth is always good, and a veteran bat would be nice to stash on the bench, but we're all rightfully worried that this team will overcommit to a single veteran.


While they can cut him, I think he'd have to go 0 for the spring and Dom just tear it up in order for them to do so. The most likely scenario is Gonzalez is given April and May to establish himself and Dom will only be brought up after that. That's the downside here.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:02 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
If you enjoyed the James Loney 1B Extravaganzaa in 2016, you’ll love Adrian gonzalez in 2018!!!

But remember- Loney was Terry’s fault right?


But remember - a lot of people thought Loney's play was fine because first basemen don't have to hit for power because of Olerud and Hernandez, right?

That said, Gonzalez has marginally more upside than James Loney. While I don't expect him to be good, he might be tolerable.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:01 pm 
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northway wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
If you enjoyed the James Loney 1B Extravaganzaa in 2016, you’ll love Adrian gonzalez in 2018!!!

But remember- Loney was Terry’s fault right?


But remember - a lot of people thought Loney's play was fine because first basemen don't have to hit for power because of Olerud and Hernandez, right?

That said, Gonzalez has marginally more upside than James Loney. While I don't expect him to be good, he might be tolerable.


Loney's first 53 games: 285 .338 .446 .784 211 PAs, 6 homers, 13 walks, 26 Ks.

Loney's final 47. 155 PAs, .240 .265 .333 .598, 3 homers, 3 walks (all intentional), 11 Ks. It was partly babiped, but now does a guy not earn a single walk over 155 PAs?

He was almost OK for his first 2 months or so, lousy after. I think we might have been OK with him if he OPS'd 780 the entire year.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:44 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Loney's first 53 games: 285 .338 .446 .784 211 PAs, 6 homers, 13 walks, 26 Ks.

Loney's final 47. 155 PAs, .240 .265 .333 .598, 3 homers, 3 walks (all intentional), 11 Ks. It was partly babiped, but now does a guy not earn a single walk over 155 PAs?

He was almost OK for his first 2 months or so, lousy after. I think we might have been OK with him if he OPS'd 780 the entire year.


That's all well and good, but it was pretty clear from Day 1 that we were waiting for the wheels to fall off, but there was the standard chorus claiming that his performance was sustainable and that it's sustainability was somehow linked to Olerud and Hernandez.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:24 pm 
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But WHY do the Mets have to hedge their bets on the rookies? The Yankees were just fine starting Judge and Sanchez as rookies last year, granted neither Dom or Rosario is THAT but it's the principle of the thing. If the most well-run organization in baseball can start multiple rookies (and Judge was FAR from proven heading into the season) in the same market, why can't we?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:41 pm 
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AllWrightNow wrote:
But WHY do the Mets have to hedge their bets on the rookies? The Yankees were just fine starting Judge and Sanchez as rookies last year, granted neither Dom or Rosario is THAT but it's the principle of the thing. If the most well-run organization in baseball can start multiple rookies (and Judge was FAR from proven heading into the season) in the same market, why can't we?


There's no hedge for Rosario, unless you're counting Cabrera (and the likely re-signing of Jose Reyes). As such, I'd argue that they're doing so because of the quality of the player at hand. The reality is that Dom just isn't in the same class as the other guys in question, and his cup of coffee was essentially the polar opposite of Sanchez's.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:45 pm 
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AllWrightNow wrote:
But WHY do the Mets have to hedge their bets on the rookies? The Yankees were just fine starting Judge and Sanchez as rookies last year, granted neither Dom or Rosario is THAT but it's the principle of the thing. If the most well-run organization in baseball can start multiple rookies (and Judge was FAR from proven heading into the season) in the same market, why can't we?


Because they aren't Sanchez and Judge. And also, maybe because the rest of the team could better cover for two rookies?

We're going to cover Dom and Rosario with no 2B, Cabrera, TDA, no CF, and Conforto out for while.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:23 pm 
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To be fair about this, Judge was nearly sent to AAA before the season started.

And once he made the team they would have settled for a .240/.330/.460 line with 20 homers.

Come to think of it they would have been "happy" with those numbers.


It's only been 9 months and yet some forget that there where many who thought Judge was headed for bust territory.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign Adrian Gonzalez
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:20 am 
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I don't hate it on the surface. I always liked him as a player....he was very underrated for much of his career. He was a disaster last year but still a solid bat in 2016 and great in 2015 so I think it's a reasonable risk on a league minimum deal.

There were some questionable "character" things with him last year and there was a lot of talk about the Mets being concerned about their clubhouse but Sandy does know him from their Padres days so maybe he trusts what he knows from personal experience vs the stories of whatever happened in other places.. And I would guess they've had some discussions about that stuff and the presence of Dom an whatnot

But since they havent said anything publicly it is unclear how they plan to use him. Are they viewing him as the everyday 1b right now? Is this going to be something decided on a ST try out? Would they roster both him and Smith - two LHH that can only really play 1b?

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