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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:53 pm 
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@MetsGM doing big things... 1 Met Makes @baseballpro top 101 prospects, 0 Mets make @fangraphs top 100 #Mets

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:01 am 
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I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:10 am 
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Nice list. Not sure it's relevant except as an exercise in futility, but I appreciate the effort.

Prospect lists are fungible. Prospects are fungible. A guy tears up low A, struggles in high A the entire list crumbles. One draft can take a 'top 10' farm and bump it to 20. By the same token, one good draft can bump a bottom ten farm into the mid-teens range.

As long as we have some decent top tier guys, and good int'l players right now, w/in two years we'll be back in the top ten.

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:15 am 
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pennst92 wrote:
Nice list. Not sure it's relevant except as an exercise in futility, but I appreciate the effort.

Prospect lists are fungible. Prospects are fungible. A guy tears up low A, struggles in high A the entire list crumbles. One draft can take a 'top 10' farm and bump it to 20. By the same token, one good draft can bump a bottom ten farm into the mid-teens range.

As long as we have some decent top tier guys, and good int'l players right now, w/in two years we'll be back in the top ten.



Currently we don't really have good "top tier" guys. This isn't the Wright/Reyes years where it was thin but we had studs. Most top 100 lists are out and we had 1 or none on most lists and even then Gimenez placed back end when he did place.

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Baseball America ranked the top 30 shortstop prospects in baseball with two Mets on the list

No. 11 Andres Gimenez
No. 28 Ronny Mauricio.

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Not the best sign for your system when your near consensus top prospect is the #11 SS prospect in the game per @BaseballAmerica #Mets

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".


Reminiscent of the early Carpio reports...

...and we know what the comp is here. Don't want to trigger a pages-long argument though.


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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:25 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".


Reminiscent of the early Carpio reports...

...and we know what the comp is here. Don't want to trigger a pages-long argument though.


There's a significant difference between 20 power and 40 power. 40 isn't a loud tool, but that's no reason to make comparisons to a 20 power guy (with an occasional bad attitude to boot) and say "same player".

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".


I don't know if I would say that Mets fans are over rating him. Teams usually don't have 19 year old kids skip levels. Mets management are the ones that see something special in him. And truthfully, the writers judgement could be a little biased because he was watching Gimenez play in a more advanced league than he should have.


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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:20 am 
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piazzafan wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".


I don't know if I would say that Mets fans are over rating him. Teams usually don't have 19 year old kids skip levels. Mets management are the ones that see something special in him. And truthfully, the writers judgement could be a little biased because he was watching Gimenez play in a more advanced league than he should have.



You mean like Luis Carpio who played a whopping 12 games in BK and then was in Columbia this year at 19? (Just one example). The IFA kids are placed due to perceived maturity more than draft picks. Scouts can differentiate between "struggling due to level" and "tools don't stand out" trust me. That's not to say Gimenez can't be good but there have been many proposed trades on here where Gimenez is a "untouchable" which implies he's a special talent and not a "good" one. The perception among the experts and scouts doesn't match that. He didn't even MAKE a few major lists including Keith Law and Fangraphs.

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:23 am 
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piazzafan wrote:
Metro2007 wrote:
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".


I don't know if I would say that Mets fans are over rating him. Teams usually don't have 19 year old kids skip levels. Mets management are the ones that see something special in him. And truthfully, the writers judgement could be a little biased because he was watching Gimenez play in a more advanced league than he should have.




Greg Karam says:

He was able to hold his own in full season ball as an 18-year-old, so given the state of the system this was an easy ranking. He has a smooth swing and a quick bat. Couple that with his ability to make contact and his up-the-middle defensive prowess and there’s a lot to be excited about

Lukas Vlahos says:

Gimenez is really not my kind of prospect as a polish over potential guy, but he’s still comfortably in the top spot because of how bad the Mets’ farm is at present. If everything works out, Gimenez should offer solid defense with minimal power and an occasional steal - sort of like Ruben Tejada’s 2011. That’s not a piece to get particularly excited for or the sort of prospect that headlines a big trade, but it is a useful profile as a secondary piece on a contender.

Steve Sypa says:

Gimenez has upside, but, to me, he doesn’t have enough upside to get me excited. When you think ‘top prospect in the system’, you generally get the sense of a guy being the best of the best. There are still a few different ways that Gimenez’s career could go, but none of them scream star. If Gimenez can develop into a useful player, regardless of his upside, that will still be a big win for the system.

https://www.amazinavenue.com/2018/1/19/ ... gimenez-ss

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 Post subject: Re: Your 2018 Mets top 50 prospects
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:30 pm 
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There is definitely a conflation of the idea of scouts with bloggers in here. I've seen it a bunch of times. The guys cited here are almost always bloggers, some of whom sometimes cite scouts in their writeups, but normally are giving their own 'somewhat educated' opinion.... which is to say many of them (no need to name specific bloggers here) are simply paid versions of the posters right here. Moreover, I definitely value the opinions of some posters here more than the bloggers some people cite from time to time.

Yes, in some cases, some of these guys who are paid to opine about the prospect universe do get out and see more minor league games than I do, but many of them also have day jobs and do this as a sideline. Just saying not to lose sight of the notion, with these bloggers in particular, that their views should be taken with a grain of salt. And of course, scouts make plenty of bad calls too.

Back to the topic... FG issued what is their 'best of the rest' lists today and they have both Gimenez and Mauricio prominently mentioned in the MI group. To me, the idea of conflating Gimenez with Carpio doesn't hold much water. And tying this back to the above, the knocks on Gimenez for 'not having loud tools' or whatever we're hearing now sounds like someone making up the justification for him being left off some top 100 lists. To me, he's full of tools. He's already showing good contact skills playing in a league where he's 3 yrs younger than everyone else. He's a quick twitch LHed hitting 2Bman with good secondary skills and the contact will just get louder when his body fills out a little more. This is definitely a ML regular track. Carpio was never on anything but a UT track at best.


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