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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:57 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:

But I certainly don't mind at all that he's got a bulldog determination to be successful as a starter. I like that.


Thats certainly one read of it. Another, given that he missed 2 full seasons and hadn't had much success to that point anyway, is entitlement given he was in competition with guys coming off successful 2016's and he basically said "I won't go into the pen."

If I showed up in Florida today and told the Mets I demanded to be put into their Starting Rotation, I could characterize that as a bulldog mentality to be a major league pitcher. It would also be laughably out of touch.

So, if I understand this correctly, you're equating a walk-on (yourself) with Zach Wheeler..?

What the heck do we expect the guy to be saying...? "I'm happy to get bumped from their rotation plans and get mop up duty or even go down to Vegas if that's what they need from me."

On what planet are we living?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:03 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:

But I certainly don't mind at all that he's got a bulldog determination to be successful as a starter. I like that.


Thats certainly one read of it. Another, given that he missed 2 full seasons and hadn't had much success to that point anyway, is entitlement given he was in competition with guys coming off successful 2016's and he basically said "I won't go into the pen."

If I showed up in Florida today and told the Mets I demanded to be put into their Starting Rotation, I could characterize that as a bulldog mentality to be a major league pitcher. It would also be laughably out of touch.

So, if I understand this correctly, you're equating a walk-on (yourself) with Zach Wheeler..?

What the heck do we expect the guy to be saying...? "I'm happy to get bumped from their rotation plans and get mop up duty or even go down to Vegas if that's what they need from me."

On what planet are we living?


I'm pretty sure the Cliche Handbook states that you say something along the lines of, "I want to win", "I want to do whatever I can to help the team", or "Whether you're starting or relieving, it's the same mound", perhaps with a "I plan to make the rotation" thrown into the mix.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:03 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:

But I certainly don't mind at all that he's got a bulldog determination to be successful as a starter. I like that.


Thats certainly one read of it. Another, given that he missed 2 full seasons and hadn't had much success to that point anyway, is entitlement given he was in competition with guys coming off successful 2016's and he basically said "I won't go into the pen."

If I showed up in Florida today and told the Mets I demanded to be put into their Starting Rotation, I could characterize that as a bulldog mentality to be a major league pitcher. It would also be laughably out of touch.

So, if I understand this correctly, you're equating a walk-on (yourself) with Zach Wheeler..?

What the heck do we expect the guy to be saying...? "I'm happy to get bumped from their rotation plans and get mop up duty or even go down to Vegas if that's what they need from me."

On what planet are we living?


An acknowledgement that he needs to improve and wants to help the team would be a start. The nonsensical “I’ve shown I’m as good as anyone “ line is hilariously off base.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:04 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

And even sillier to tout that Jason Vargas, who outpitched the guys he's competing with last year, will be terrible in 2018 because he's 35.

It's really because he was awful in the 2nd half, and he's 35. That seems a lot more relevant than what he did in 2011.

I wouldn't have liked this signing very much if it were a 1 yr deal or at half the g'tee. The fact that it is a $16M g'tee for 2 yrs is laughably incompetent for a team who constantly cries about it's financial limitations. It was joked about before, but it is exactly what people went apespit over during the Omar reign. And as said a few pages up, I really don't care about spending Fred's money, but I do care that this will ostensibly prevent them from doing something better when the moment arises.

For the money they have [wasted] in Vargas, Harvey and Ramos, they could have Arrieta.

I would love to be proven wrong about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:11 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
An acknowledgement that he needs to improve and wants to help the team would be a start. The nonsensical “I’ve shown I’m as good as anyone “ line is hilariously off base.

Again, go back to 2014, ostensibly the last time he was healthy... and a lot of people were sky high about this guy. The guy has been beaten down so much from injuries, it's amazing he still has any confidence left. Why knock it?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:19 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:

And even sillier to tout that Jason Vargas, who outpitched the guys he's competing with last year, will be terrible in 2018 because he's 35.

It's really because he was awful in the 2nd half, and he's 35. That seems a lot more relevant than what he did in 2011.

I wouldn't have liked this signing very much if it were a 1 yr deal or at half the g'tee. The fact that it is a $16M g'tee for 2 yrs is laughably incompetent for a team who constantly cries about it's financial limitations. It was joked about before, but it is exactly what people went apespit over during the Omar reign. And as said a few pages up, I really don't care about spending Fred's money, but I do care that this will ostensibly prevent them from doing something better when the moment arises.

For the money they have [wasted] in Vargas, Harvey and Ramos, they could have Arrieta.

I would love to be proven wrong about this.


I think this logic only works if you think Arrieta is going to sign for three years or less. I have no idea what to expect at this point, but I think he'll probably get more than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:33 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
An acknowledgement that he needs to improve and wants to help the team would be a start. The nonsensical “I’ve shown I’m as good as anyone “ line is hilariously off base.

Again, go back to 2014, ostensibly the last time he was healthy... and a lot of people were sky high about this guy. The guy has been beaten down so much from injuries, it's amazing he still has any confidence left. Why knock it?


Why was he not healthy when he was pitching last year? Because he wasn't good?

If you have to say "If you think about how I pitched 4 seasons ago" in defense on your place on the team, your case is weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:38 pm 
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northway wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
It's really because he was awful in the 2nd half, and he's 35. That seems a lot more relevant than what he did in 2011.

I wouldn't have liked this signing very much if it were a 1 yr deal or at half the g'tee. The fact that it is a $16M g'tee for 2 yrs is laughably incompetent for a team who constantly cries about it's financial limitations. It was joked about before, but it is exactly what people went apespit over during the Omar reign. And as said a few pages up, I really don't care about spending Fred's money, but I do care that this will ostensibly prevent them from doing something better when the moment arises.

For the money they have [wasted] in Vargas, Harvey and Ramos, they could have Arrieta.

I would love to be proven wrong about this.


I think this logic only works if you think Arrieta is going to sign for three years or less.

Why is that?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
I'm going to be the Debbie Downer and predict Vargas is the first SP on the DL this year.


I'm going to predict that he's the first one the Mets put on the DL with a phantom injury as an excuse for his horrid results. Tommy Milone version 2.0. They should have just signed Bartolo Colon. At least there would have been entertainment value with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:32 pm 
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piazzafan wrote:
Ralf wrote:
I'm going to be the Debbie Downer and predict Vargas is the first SP on the DL this year.


I'm going to predict that he's the first one the Mets put on the DL with a phantom injury as an excuse for his horrid results. Tommy Milone version 2.0. They should have just signed Bartolo Colon. At least there would have been entertainment value with him.


My prediction is that coming back to the NL for the first time since he turned his career around in 2010, he puts up a sub-3.75 ERA this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Not sure this helps...

So basically it will be Thor, Jake, Matz, Harvey, Vargas.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Disco Ball wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Disco Ball wrote:
I guess this was fake news after all:

https://nypost.com/2017/12/21/inside-th ... hats-next/

Yeah, this is the Mets throwing some money around just to prove a point. I really don't know where "all this" spending has gotten the team this winter. Really not impressed by what they did this winter at all.


Just this past December the majority of the regular posters here were ready to burn Alderson in effigy (using their 2018 season ticket re-order forms as kindling), all in anticipation of another quiet offseason.

In the last 30 days they have signed or re-signed Bruce, Frazier, Reyes, Gonzalez and Vargas. I don't think any team has been that active. They actually did what they said they were going to do, which is strike when/if the market came back to them. They have, at least on paper, addressed their most glaring needs and have quietly had a very good offseason. And all of this without any crippling long-term commitments or lost draft picks.

I have been a fan for decades. That would make anyone a cynic. The death of accurate reporting, at least on this beat, hasn't helped. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting another "source" that claimed they were cutting payroll. Remember the one about they could only add $10M to the roster?

That said, they have pleasantly surprised me this past month. I am looking forward to the season. They have to stay healthy, but they have augmented the roster with some solid moves.

With all due respect, what would you have done instead?


Hear, hear!! They did what they had to do. On paper, this is a good team with some scars from 2017. With some good luck for once, 2018 could be the 2017 that never was.


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