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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:18 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
Not sure this helps...

So basically it will be Thor, Jake, Matz, Harvey, Vargas.


I think I'd term is Thor, Jake, Vargas, [whoever looks the best in ST/comes out healthy], Harvey.

With Harvey getting his spot by default no matter how he looks. For now.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:38 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
Not sure this helps...

So basically it will be Thor, Jake, Matz, Harvey, Vargas.


I think I'd term is Thor, Jake, Vargas, [whoever looks the best in ST/comes out healthy], Harvey.

With Harvey getting his spot by default no matter how he looks. For now.


Couldn't they cut him by a certain date and save a bunch of money if he looks awful?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:45 pm 
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thebull wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
Not sure this helps...

So basically it will be Thor, Jake, Matz, Harvey, Vargas.


I think I'd term is Thor, Jake, Vargas, [whoever looks the best in ST/comes out healthy], Harvey.

With Harvey getting his spot by default no matter how he looks. For now.


Couldn't they cut him by a certain date and save a bunch of money if he looks awful?


Yes. You tell me if you see that as a realistic possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:53 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
An acknowledgement that he needs to improve and wants to help the team would be a start. The nonsensical “I’ve shown I’m as good as anyone “ line is hilariously off base.

Again, go back to 2014, ostensibly the last time he was healthy... and a lot of people were sky high about this guy. The guy has been beaten down so much from injuries, it's amazing he still has any confidence left. Why knock it?


Why was he not healthy when he was pitching last year? Because he wasn't good?

If you have to say "If you think about how I pitched 4 seasons ago" in defense on your place on the team, your case is weak.


At the very least they should have given Wheeler a chance to win a rotation spot during spring training.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:47 pm 
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we were never gonna get Yu, but this is the next best thing. Harvey is terrible and gives the team zero chance to win. Matz and Wheeler are unreliable. We need a guy who can atleast keep us in a game


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Ciarán wrote:
we were never gonna get Yu, but this is the next best thing. Harvey is terrible and gives the team zero chance to win. Matz and Wheeler are unreliable. We need a guy who can atleast keep us in a game

In which alternate universe is Jason Vargas the next best thing to Yu Darvish?


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:38 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
Ciarán wrote:
we were never gonna get Yu, but this is the next best thing. Harvey is terrible and gives the team zero chance to win. Matz and Wheeler are unreliable. We need a guy who can atleast keep us in a game

In which alternate universe is Jason Vargas the next best thing to Yu Darvish?


Free agent wise, I'd take him over everyone but Darvish, Arrietta, Cobb and maybe Lynn.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:42 am 
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piazzafan wrote:

At the very least they should have given Wheeler a chance to win a rotation spot during spring training.


It sucks for Wheeler, but teams have to make plans for injuries. Bumping your projected #5 starter back to the minors is one of those things that good GMs do when the team is trying to win.

Wheeler can still earn a spot, he just needs to stand out as clearly better than one of the 5 or wait for an injury - which, hate to say it, but it's not that uncommon for a #6 starter to get a bunch of starts.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 am 
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Disco Ball wrote:

Just this past December the majority of the regular posters here were ready to burn Alderson in effigy (using their 2018 season ticket re-order forms as kindling), all in anticipation of another quiet offseason.

In the last 30 days they have signed or re-signed Bruce, Frazier, Reyes, Gonzalez and Vargas. I don't think any team has been that active. They actually did what they said they were going to do, which is strike when/if the market came back to them. They have, at least on paper, addressed their most glaring needs and have quietly had a very good offseason. And all of this without any crippling long-term commitments or lost draft picks.

I have been a fan for decades. That would make anyone a cynic. The death of accurate reporting, at least on this beat, hasn't helped. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting another "source" that claimed they were cutting payroll. Remember the one about they could only add $10M to the roster?

That said, they have pleasantly surprised me this past month. I am looking forward to the season. They have to stay healthy, but they have augmented the roster with some solid moves.

With all due respect, what would you have done instead?


Alderson was actually saying "We're going to cut payroll". (and I think people blamed the Wilpons for payroll, not Sandy. The knock on Sandy was that he lacked creativity)

I don't think the reporting was inaccurate, I think the reporters reported what Sandy told them. I think this was the plan all along. Lower expectations, then make a few signings.

I also think the bargain free agent prices were too tempting for the coup, I mean, Wilpons.

All that said, apart from the reporting, I agree with you. I think the Wilpons did pretty good by way of the fans this off-season. Nobody they landed was really exciting but they added solid depth in a number of places.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:25 am 
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Another former Met returns. Like it. He’s pretty much exactly what they need. A durable lefty. I was surprised to read he lead the AL in wins last year.
Not surprised to read his nickname is...Vargy...


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:40 am 
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egelband2 wrote:
Another former Met returns. Like it. He’s pretty much exactly what they need. A durable lefty. I was surprised to read he lead the AL in wins last year.
Not surprised to read his nickname is...Vargy...


I don't know if he's durable if he missed most of 2015 and 2016 from Tommy John and he's 35. I think he's very hit or miss but at 2/16 I think he's a good gamble and a solid get by the mets.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets sign SP Jason Vargas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:12 am 
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Ciarán wrote:
we were never gonna get Yu, but this is the next best thing. Harvey is terrible and gives the team zero chance to win. Matz and Wheeler are unreliable. We need a guy who can atleast keep us in a game


One season sometimes can predict success or failure in subsequent years but sometimes it may be just a one-year "thing." If these guys were coming off a tremendous season of success, we would expect the same success in 2018 just as many of us saw these guys hit bottom in 2017 and we tend to expect the same going forward. Sometimes it does go that way but sometimes it doesn't.

Safe to say Matz and Wheeler still have good overall stuff. Both were affected by injuries, with Wheeler also likely suffering from some rust. If healthy, they still have the basics to be what they were prior to 2017 (Wheeler, prior to 2015). There is some hope here, there really is.....

As to Harvey, it is not impossible that with an awful year behind him, he knows now what he can and cannot do. What he cannot do is pump his FB up to 97. What he can do is learn to adjust and to work on what he still has, which isn't Dark Knight stuff but may not really be so darn awful, either. He knows his remaining career depends upon his being able to work with what he has and to refine and control it. We shall see.....

It would be foolish for the Mets to have given up on these guys completely, given their ages, their salaries and what they still have going for them. We should not totally give up on them either.


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