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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Calling Alonso "righty Duda clone" when he's trending more towards Goldschmidt and Hoskins at the plate in the minors is ridiculous.

Nitey's defense of Smith and subsequent bashing of Alonso is getting pathological at this point, and yet others will come to his aid and say, "He's got a point! Remember Justin Turner?! Some guys are late bloomers!" when that's not at all relevant to the Dom/Alonso discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:46 pm 
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R Nitelight wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
If the Mets called up Alonso for the next month and he hit .180 and then they dropped him down to Vegas...what would your argument be then?



What would theirs?


8)


The same? Alonso would still have a way better record of production in the minors and would still have more upside considering Alonso's power.

But your argument that "Smith is more proven because he's played in the majors" would disappear.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:52 pm 
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I'm guessing you could build a case around defense, some industry skepticism on Alonso’s hit tool, etc.

But the path Nitey chose there was a sort of ironic one, since Alonso pretty much hits or exceeds all the marks he noted.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Hot Takes wrote:
R Nitelight wrote:
MaxV wrote:
So what if he is a 1st round pick?

To me that’s meaningless.


It's an indication of how he was evaluated by the industry.


8)


Levi Michael was a first-round pick.


And things change quickly. Not everyone develops as expected. Smith was drafted 5 years ago already.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:08 pm 
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I don't even really know that "righty Lucas Duda" is an insult considering that may be an optimistic career outcome for Dom.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:18 pm 
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If Alonso ends up better that would be great, but shouldn't we find out about Dom now so we can give Alonso a taste of AAA, and Dom a full test at the ML level?

The thing I think we should ALL agree on is that A Gonzalez should not be taking time from either...and he is. Cut Gonzalez, promote Smith, promote Alonso. Re-evalate in August. Problem solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:47 pm 
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I'm confused as to why people feel the need to take sides re: Alonso v. Smith. I'm high on both players, and expect both to start and perform very well in the majors.

Two points in defense of Smith:

1) you can't evenly compare his minor league numbers to those of Alonso, since he was basically 2.5 years younger than him in each league they both played in.

2) While Dom isn't doing much in Vegas so far, this is unsurprising, in that when a player performs well at a level, and you make them repeat it, the player gets bored and stagnates.

Dom is currently 22 years old. Those who think they know what he will amount to have no idea what they are talking about. Could he be a disappointment? Of course he could. But we really have no idea how he'll respond and develop at this point. And making him repeat levels and sticking him in the outfield may not bring out the best in him. It may be that he ends up flourishing in a different organization.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:24 pm 
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jdawginsc wrote:
If Alonso ends up better that would be great, but shouldn't we find out about Dom now so we can give Alonso a taste of AAA, and Dom a full test at the ML level?

The thing I think we should ALL agree on is that A Gonzalez should not be taking time from either...and he is. Cut Gonzalez, promote Smith, promote Alonso. Re-evalate in August. Problem solved.


I don't get the hate on Gonzo--he is slashing 263/336/415, not great, but certainly better than 2/3 of the rest of the roster. He isn't the problem. Bruce, Conforto and Rosario are killing the team right now, and Cespedes is hurt again. The Mets need at least one semi-reliable bat behind Nimmo and AsCab right now and it is Gonzo.

I am very excited about what Alonso might bring to the order, but I get the Mets caution with him and a willingness to stick with Gonzo. At the 1/4 turn they are only three games behind the division leader, an unproven division leader at that.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:30 pm 
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maxlongstreet wrote:
I'm confused as to why people feel the need to take sides re: Alonso v. Smith. I'm high on both players, and expect both to start and perform very well in the majors.

Two points in defense of Smith:

1) you can't evenly compare his minor league numbers to those of Alonso, since he was basically 2.5 years younger than him in each league they both played in.

2) While Dom isn't doing much in Vegas so far, this is unsurprising, in that when a player performs well at a level, and you make them repeat it, the player gets bored and stagnates.

Dom is currently 22 years old. Those who think they know what he will amount to have no idea what they are talking about. Could he be a disappointment? Of course he could. But we really have no idea how he'll respond and develop at this point. And making him repeat levels and sticking him in the outfield may not bring out the best in him. It may be that he ends up flourishing in a different organization.


IMHO, the way the game of baseball is going now, Alonso now has a bigger chance of success than Dom does because Dom is left handed. Whether any one wants to admit it or not the shift is becoming an obstacle for young lefty hitters that is not easy to over come....especially ones with no speed. You can see the frustration in the face of a vet like Jay Bruce when he smokes a ball and the 2nd baseman who is standing pretty deep in the outfield easily throws him out. Imagine how frustrating it is to a young player.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Disco Ball wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
If Alonso ends up better that would be great, but shouldn't we find out about Dom now so we can give Alonso a taste of AAA, and Dom a full test at the ML level?

The thing I think we should ALL agree on is that A Gonzalez should not be taking time from either...and he is. Cut Gonzalez, promote Smith, promote Alonso. Re-evalate in August. Problem solved.


I don't get the hate on Gonzo--he is slashing 263/336/415, not great, but certainly better than 2/3 of the rest of the roster. He isn't the problem. Bruce, Conforto and Rosario are killing the team right now, and Cespedes is hurt again. The Mets need at least one semi-reliable bat behind Nimmo and AsCab right now and it is Gonzo.

I am very excited about what Alonso might bring to the order, but I get the Mets caution with him and a willingness to stick with Gonzo. At the 1/4 turn they are only three games behind the division leader, an unproven division leader at that.


Gonzo currently has between -0.1 and 0.2 WAR at this point, depending on whose metrics you go with. He's a mediocre hitting first basemen with little range - a replacement level player, which was entirely to be expected based on his performance last year. Develop a young player with upside or bring in a replacement level vet? The choice is, and was, clear.

And the disappointing perfomances of other players so far has nothing to do with this one way or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:44 pm 
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The problem is that this offense is so bad that you can't settle for mediocre performance from your first baseman.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso watch thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
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maxlongstreet wrote:
Disco Ball wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
If Alonso ends up better that would be great, but shouldn't we find out about Dom now so we can give Alonso a taste of AAA, and Dom a full test at the ML level?

The thing I think we should ALL agree on is that A Gonzalez should not be taking time from either...and he is. Cut Gonzalez, promote Smith, promote Alonso. Re-evalate in August. Problem solved.


I don't get the hate on Gonzo--he is slashing 263/336/415, not great, but certainly better than 2/3 of the rest of the roster. He isn't the problem. Bruce, Conforto and Rosario are killing the team right now, and Cespedes is hurt again. The Mets need at least one semi-reliable bat behind Nimmo and AsCab right now and it is Gonzo.

I am very excited about what Alonso might bring to the order, but I get the Mets caution with him and a willingness to stick with Gonzo. At the 1/4 turn they are only three games behind the division leader, an unproven division leader at that.


Gonzo currently has between -0.1 and 0.2 WAR at this point, depending on whose metrics you go with. He's a mediocre hitting first basemen with little range - a replacement level player, which was entirely to be expected based on his performance last year. Develop a young player with upside or bring in a replacement level vet? The choice is, and was, clear.

And the disappointing perfomances of other players so far has nothing to do with this one way or the other.


Sure it does. There's a decent chance that Dom would not even have AGon's numbers. What if we also Dom in the line-up hitting like last season?


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