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Discuss the Mets and their minor leaguers.
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Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:11 am

northway wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
Kelenic, Dunn and Bautista...what else could that package have bought for players on the market...?


And by this time next year Kelenic's value could be a lot higher

Power, Patience, Speed -- He has the holy trinity of what you would want to see from a prospect offensively. Plus he has tremendous value defensively.

If he plays full season ball next season, these tools will be on full display - accumulating stats and getting positive scout write ups - He could easily be a top 30 prospect in baseball.

So this is what also bothers me. Peter Alonso is ranked similarly to Kelenic right now but there is probably a 50-50 chance Kelenic shoots up prospect lists (where someone like Alonso is probably at his peak in terms of prospect value)

Maybe this ends up being his peak value .. but more likely his value goes up and maybe he could have been the centerpiece for a #2 starter or 3rd basemen...etc (and not a deal that includes a bad contract)


The way BVW and Dipoto trade there's at least a 25% chance that Kelenic ends up back here at some point.


Let's get Haniger back too!

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:10 pm

Not that anyone asked or cares, but one thing that I keep coming back to with this Cano/Diaz deal is that I'm genuinely curious what the deal would or could have looked like if the Mets didn't have those bad contracts on the books that they had to dump. Whatever you think of Bruce and Swarzak as players, BVW feeling like he "had to" or even "should" get rid of their contracts led to the dealing of nice young talent. The Cano/Diaz deal is BVW's to own for sure, but he couldn't have done it unless the Mets hadn't just saddled the club with these two bad contracts.

In other words, do the Mets even trade for Cano/Diaz if they don't have Bruce/Swarzak's bad money on the books? How would they even pull it off?

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:17 pm

chinabox wrote:Not that anyone asked or cares, but one thing that I keep coming back to with this Cano/Diaz deal is that I'm genuinely curious what the deal would or could have looked like if the Mets didn't have those bad contracts on the books that they had to dump. Whatever you think of Bruce and Swarzak as players, BVW feeling like he "had to" or even "should" get rid of their contracts led to the dealing of nice young talent. The Cano/Diaz deal is BVW's to own for sure, but he couldn't have done it unless the Mets hadn't just saddled the club with these two bad contracts.

In other words, do the Mets even trade for Cano/Diaz if they don't have Bruce/Swarzak's bad money on the books? How would they even pull it off?


I argued this on the twittah when people were freaking on the young talent too.

If BVW called up DiPoto and said "We will take on Cano, and his whole contract, if you give us Diaz. Nothing coming back" - do you think DiPoto does it? I don't.

I know that creates a real wonky valuation on Kelenic, but I think there gets to be a point of diminishing returns on "saving payroll." Their payroll isn't going to be 0 this year, despite not even pretending to try to win.

Brodie, for the record, claims that DiPoto initially refused to include Diaz and once Diaz got on the table, it had to be Kelenic involved from our side. Does Brodie do Kelenic for Diaz straight up? Probably not, is my guess.

So I think your hypothesis is correct. For this to really work, a lot of things had to be in place and the motivations had to be just right. I know most look at Cano as a net negative here, but I really believe they think he is an "add" in their plan.

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:44 pm

Well ... Hopefully the next GM just allows the Cano contract run out instead of saddling us with another long term bad contract with a player past his prime.

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:52 pm

bygranddesign wrote:Well ... Hopefully the next GM just allows the Cano contract run out instead of saddling us with another long term bad contract with a player past his prime.


It'll probably be Bryce Harper...

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:12 pm

chinabox wrote:Not that anyone asked or cares, but one thing that I keep coming back to with this Cano/Diaz deal is that I'm genuinely curious what the deal would or could have looked like if the Mets didn't have those bad contracts on the books that they had to dump. Whatever you think of Bruce and Swarzak as players, BVW feeling like he "had to" or even "should" get rid of their contracts led to the dealing of nice young talent. The Cano/Diaz deal is BVW's to own for sure, but he couldn't have done it unless the Mets hadn't just saddled the club with these two bad contracts.

In other words, do the Mets even trade for Cano/Diaz if they don't have Bruce/Swarzak's bad money on the books? How would they even pull it off?


Odds are they would have just gotten Seattle to kick in a little more money, although it wouldn't have quite been the equivalent value of Bruce and Swarzak's deals since in theory the M's could flip Bruce and Swarzak along the way too so they'd prefer that to just adding another $30 million in retained salary onto Cano's deal.

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:18 pm

jdawginsc wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:Well ... Hopefully the next GM just allows the Cano contract run out instead of saddling us with another long term bad contract with a player past his prime.


It'll probably be Bryce Harper...


That sounds about right. But don't forget to throw in Mauricio, Newton and Luis Santana in the deal

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:23 am

To be fair, Emaus was a JP guy.

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:26 pm

bygranddesign wrote:Well ... Hopefully the next GM just allows the Cano contract run out instead of saddling us with another long term bad contract with a player past his prime.
Did someone say Jared Banner?

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:45 am

There is an article in the post in which Mickey says that McNeil will be a super sub and Frazier will be the starting 3rd basemen

Just an FYI to all the peeps who dismissed my concerns about what this trade means for McNeil

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:49 am

bygranddesign wrote:There is an article in the post in which Mickey says that McNeil will be a super sub and Frazier will be the starting 3rd basemen

Just an FYI to all the peeps who dismissed my concerns about what this trade means for McNeil


They were never just benching Frazier.

Still Mickey mentioned both SS, 1B and corner OF for McNeil. They’ve dropped Zobrist comps this week as to how they’ll use him.

I’ll bet McNeil winds up with 400 ABs this year. And a strong bench is something we haven’t had since....uh ever?

Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets

Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:09 am

And a week ago, I think it was BVW, mentioned a similar potential role for TDA.


Saying TDA could get a look as a 3B/1B/C and possibly corner OF.
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