MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 545 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 ... 46  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:29 am 
User avatar
Offline
MVP

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:14 am
Posts: 2750
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
chinabox wrote:
Not that anyone asked or cares, but one thing that I keep coming back to with this Cano/Diaz deal is that I'm genuinely curious what the deal would or could have looked like if the Mets didn't have those bad contracts on the books that they had to dump. Whatever you think of Bruce and Swarzak as players, BVW feeling like he "had to" or even "should" get rid of their contracts led to the dealing of nice young talent. The Cano/Diaz deal is BVW's to own for sure, but he couldn't have done it unless the Mets hadn't just saddled the club with these two bad contracts.

In other words, do the Mets even trade for Cano/Diaz if they don't have Bruce/Swarzak's bad money on the books? How would they even pull it off?


I argued this on the twittah when people were freaking on the young talent too.

If BVW called up DiPoto and said "We will take on Cano, and his whole contract, if you give us Diaz. Nothing coming back" - do you think DiPoto does it? I don't.

I know that creates a real wonky valuation on Kelenic, but I think there gets to be a point of diminishing returns on "saving payroll." Their payroll isn't going to be 0 this year, despite not even pretending to try to win.

Brodie, for the record, claims that DiPoto initially refused to include Diaz and once Diaz got on the table, it had to be Kelenic involved from our side. Does Brodie do Kelenic for Diaz straight up? Probably not, is my guess.

So I think your hypothesis is correct. For this to really work, a lot of things had to be in place and the motivations had to be just right. I know most look at Cano as a net negative here, but I really believe they think he is an "add" in their plan.


I actually think that DiPoto does make the trade. Realistically he had one chance to get rid of Cano. No other team (even the Yanks) are touching Cano's contract. Add in the no trade clause and DiPoto had no choice. If he holds on to Cano and Robinson has a bad year, that's it, he's not getting rid of him for the remainder of the contract. DiPoto found a sucker and he knew he wasn't going to find another one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:32 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63190
piazzafan wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
chinabox wrote:
Not that anyone asked or cares, but one thing that I keep coming back to with this Cano/Diaz deal is that I'm genuinely curious what the deal would or could have looked like if the Mets didn't have those bad contracts on the books that they had to dump. Whatever you think of Bruce and Swarzak as players, BVW feeling like he "had to" or even "should" get rid of their contracts led to the dealing of nice young talent. The Cano/Diaz deal is BVW's to own for sure, but he couldn't have done it unless the Mets hadn't just saddled the club with these two bad contracts.

In other words, do the Mets even trade for Cano/Diaz if they don't have Bruce/Swarzak's bad money on the books? How would they even pull it off?


I argued this on the twittah when people were freaking on the young talent too.

If BVW called up DiPoto and said "We will take on Cano, and his whole contract, if you give us Diaz. Nothing coming back" - do you think DiPoto does it? I don't.

I know that creates a real wonky valuation on Kelenic, but I think there gets to be a point of diminishing returns on "saving payroll." Their payroll isn't going to be 0 this year, despite not even pretending to try to win.

Brodie, for the record, claims that DiPoto initially refused to include Diaz and once Diaz got on the table, it had to be Kelenic involved from our side. Does Brodie do Kelenic for Diaz straight up? Probably not, is my guess.

So I think your hypothesis is correct. For this to really work, a lot of things had to be in place and the motivations had to be just right. I know most look at Cano as a net negative here, but I really believe they think he is an "add" in their plan.


I actually think that DiPoto does make the trade. Realistically he had one chance to get rid of Cano. No other team (even the Yanks) are touching Cano's contract. Add in the no trade clause and DiPoto had no choice. If he holds on to Cano and Robinson has a bad year, that's it, he's not getting rid of him for the remainder of the contract. DiPoto found a sucker and he knew he wasn't going to find another one.


He doesn't, at least not per what was said publicly. Diaz was not going to be attached, instead a salary dump of Cano for our bad contracts. Once BVW insisted on Diaz, DiPoto insisted on Kelenic. Thats the genesis of the deal per Brodie, who broke it down at the press conference.

If you would have preferred that route without Diaz, I guess go for it. But, yeah. We're seeing in action how well "Just sign FA's!!" works.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:33 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63190
Daaaarryyl wrote:
And a week ago, I think it was BVW, mentioned a similar potential role for TDA.


Saying TDA could get a look as a 3B/1B/C and possibly corner OF.


The only possibility of this, IMO, is if they sign Maldonado. They're not going to invest the salary or prospect capital in the other guys and then have TdA also lurking around.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:46 am 
User avatar
Offline
General Manager

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:09 pm
Posts: 7265
MarkJohnson>You wrote:

I’ll bet McNeil winds up with 400 ABs this year. And a strong bench is something we haven’t had since....uh ever?



how about a strong starting lineup? Can we get that first?

McNeil as super sub creates more ????’s

You know what I realize was the real benefit of not playing Peter Alonso in September?

It made it easier to sell him as the 1st basemen for 2019

No one talks about getting a 1st basemen and I see people routinely have him as our cleanup hitter.

Maybe he will be a great middle of the order hitter right from the start next season .. but by not showing him (and his potential flaws) in September it eliminated the reality that he may not be ready and they just need to sell you on his upside potential

Like I said - it may work out

But they are selling a lot of flim flam - we are eliminating “ifs”, we are getting athletic up the middle, our internal projections have us as an 89 win team after the trade, McNeil will be a super sub, our RH power bat will come from (unproven) Alonso ... etc etc

Sorry this is a lot of hot air to try and drive season ticket sales


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:45 am 
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 14129
Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
bygranddesign wrote:
Like I said - it may work out

But they are selling a lot of flim flam - we are eliminating “ifs”, we are getting athletic up the middle, our internal projections have us as an 89 win team after the trade, McNeil will be a super sub, our RH power bat will come from (unproven) Alonso ... etc etc

Sorry this is a lot of hot air to try and drive season ticket sales


I don't think you're wrong, except for the last sentence. Cano isn't going to add enough tickets to make up for his contract. The goal is win now. The goal is 90 wins and playoffs, hopefully, deep into the playoffs and playoffs will increase ticket sales.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I think a world series appearance gets the Wilpons about a plus 100 million, probably more, when factoring in ticket sales for the following year. That's the goal. A 2019 and 2020 run for playoffs. If it works, they maybe reload and try again for 2021, if it doesn't work they sell and rebuild.


I agree 100% on the ifs and the uncertainties. But Cano and more-so, Diaz are here to try to win and put together a miracle season. I don't think they expect a big bump in ticket sales this winter. Cano won't do that. I think the goal is a miracle season. Going all in.


I respect a team that does that.

_________________
Nothing is Written. (few know this, but T.E. Lawrence was talking about the 2020 Mets when he said that).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:45 am 
User avatar
Offline
Veteran Presence

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:31 am
Posts: 4061
Location: Fairview Township, PA
MLBTR:
Quote:
Mariners rookie right-hander Gerson Bautista left today’s game after suffering an injury to his upper arm and/or pectoral muscle. (MLB.com’s Greg Johns was among those to report the details.) There’s no word yet on the severity of the injury, though Bautista left the mound in visible discomfort. Bautista was part of the trade package acquired from the Mets as part of the Robinson Cano/Edwin Diaz trade, and the 23-year-old has been making a good case to win a bullpen job during an impressive spring.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/ ... adell.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:31 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Everyday Player

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 1127
Location: Studio 54
yalikeMetroplitans wrote:
MLBTR:
Quote:
Mariners rookie right-hander Gerson Bautista left today’s game after suffering an injury to his upper arm and/or pectoral muscle. (MLB.com’s Greg Johns was among those to report the details.) There’s no word yet on the severity of the injury, though Bautista left the mound in visible discomfort. Bautista was part of the trade package acquired from the Mets as part of the Robinson Cano/Edwin Diaz trade, and the 23-year-old has been making a good case to win a bullpen job during an impressive spring.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/ ... adell.html


So, two of the three pitchers we sent them are injured.

_________________
"Hope for the best, expect the Mets!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:17 pm 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Staff

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:37 am
Posts: 25929
Location: charleston, sc
Disco Ball wrote:
yalikeMetroplitans wrote:
MLBTR:
Quote:
Mariners rookie right-hander Gerson Bautista left today’s game after suffering an injury to his upper arm and/or pectoral muscle. (MLB.com’s Greg Johns was among those to report the details.) There’s no word yet on the severity of the injury, though Bautista left the mound in visible discomfort. Bautista was part of the trade package acquired from the Mets as part of the Robinson Cano/Edwin Diaz trade, and the 23-year-old has been making a good case to win a bullpen job during an impressive spring.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/ ... adell.html


So, two of the three pitchers we sent them are injured.


Swarzak or Dunn is injured?

_________________
"The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." Steven Biko


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:29 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm
Posts: 84380
Location: New York, NY
Swarzak has shoulder discomfort

_________________
Twit-@Wexlerrules
Instagram- @Wexlerrules
Staunch anti-BADP (Batting average dependent players)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:52 pm 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Staff

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:37 am
Posts: 25929
Location: charleston, sc
Metro2007 wrote:
Swarzak has shoulder discomfort


Didn't see that. Not good.

_________________
"The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." Steven Biko


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:50 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 29656
Location: NYC
And Wahl who went to the Brewers in the Broxton deal will be out for the year with a knee injury.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 63190
Metro2007 wrote:
Swarzak has shoulder discomfort


Plateaued AAAA swingman with unremarkable stuff sees a sudden velo spike and begins throwing his slider 50+% of the time in bullpen role, finds success and throws in 70+ games during first full year as short reliever, has arm troubles and trouble repeating success thereafter.

This wasn't a tough story to see coming.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 545 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 ... 46  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Kevin From Spotswood, Mogriffjr and 43 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


FIND AN AA MEETING | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL BEST SELLERS | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GET HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | VETERAN TIPS ON CRAFT DIY RECIPES | FIND ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB LOCAL NEW OR USED BOOK STORE | KNICKS BLOG FORUM BOARDS | © Untraditional Media