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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm 
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Posts: 883
TomInNC wrote:
Once you've won a championship. Whatever you did to acquire the players who contributed. It's worth it.


No, it's not. Again, you could have required a key middle reliever for much less than your HOF minor league pitcher. You could have gotten that key middle reliever for your 10th best prospect, but instead because "whatever you did to acquire players who contributed" to a championship thinking, you've grossly overpaid.

By overpaying, you've reduced your chance at winning in the future and made no change to your chance of winning in the present.

Hopefully the Mets aren't actually run this poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:34 pm 
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I think there is a difference between a trade being "worth it" and being a "good trade" on paper.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

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Again, in answering the original question, the winning has happened. IF you've already won, then ANY deal for anyone who contributed is worth it. Or you can chase maybes for another 20 years.

To repeat, at the time of the trade, the must make sense. But if the trade is in the past (Cano), then AFTER you win, all's good.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:59 pm 
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General Manager

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm
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That depends on just how much Cano and Diaz contribute. If Cano is actually hitting and Diaz becomes at least a competent closer, then sure you can make the case the ends justify the means even though it's hindsight thinking since no trade guarantees a title. If we're talking about a team that wins in spite of Cano and Diaz being 2019-ish level or worse that's another story.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:01 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
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I did say, "anyone who contributed


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:17 pm 
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TomInNC wrote:
Again, in answering the original question, the winning has happened. IF you've already won, then ANY deal for anyone who contributed is worth it. Or you can chase maybes for another 20 years.

To repeat, at the time of the trade, the must make sense. But if the trade is in the past (Cano), then AFTER you win, all's good.


So what you're saying is that in retrospect, my hypothetical 35 year old middle inning reliever for the #1 prospect and future HOFer is a good trade if the team wins? And in retrospect it was a terrible trade if they lose game 7 of the WS in 18 innings?

Good management is about getting each decision right, regardless of outcomes which dependent on a range of variables not least of which is luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 9528
If they win the World Series I don't care how they got there


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Everyday Player

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TomInNC wrote:
If they win the World Series I don't care how they got there


FWIW:

The Mets were named Baseball America's "Organization of the Year" in 1995. When they made the playoffs in 1999 for the first time in 11 years, only three of the top ten prospects on the list (Rey-O, Fonzie, and Payton) where on the roster. In fairness, Preston Wilson was part of the package that landed Piazza.

Of that list, only Fonzie had an MLB career of any real note. The rest where either injured pitchers, or outfielders with low OPS. Some OK careers, but nothing spectacular.

While organizational kudos are nice, no one (except me apparently) remembers them. It's the pennant over the stadium that's the only thing that matters. And by any means necessary.

_________________
"Hope for the best, expect the Mets!"


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:46 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

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Quote:
Of that list, only Fonzie had an MLB career of any real note.



AJ Burnett was in the Al Leiter trade- and had a run where he was considered a #2-3 type SP.


But that was a great trade for the Mets and AJ's prime years weren't even with Florida.

_________________
MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:45 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 9528
Disco Ball wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
If they win the World Series I don't care how they got there


FWIW:

The Mets were named Baseball America's "Organization of the Year" in 1995. When they made the playoffs in 1999 for the first time in 11 years, only three of the top ten prospects on the list (Rey-O, Fonzie, and Payton) where on the roster. In fairness, Preston Wilson was part of the package that landed Piazza.

Of that list, only Fonzie had an MLB career of any real note. The rest where either injured pitchers, or outfielders with low OPS. Some OK careers, but nothing spectacular.

While organizational kudos are nice, no one (except me apparently) remembers them. It's the pennant over the stadium that's the only thing that matters. And by any means necessary.


But they didn’t win a championship


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz are Mets
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:01 am 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am
Posts: 11597
TomInNC wrote:
Disco Ball wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
If they win the World Series I don't care how they got there


FWIW:

The Mets were named Baseball America's "Organization of the Year" in 1995. When they made the playoffs in 1999 for the first time in 11 years, only three of the top ten prospects on the list (Rey-O, Fonzie, and Payton) where on the roster. In fairness, Preston Wilson was part of the package that landed Piazza.

Of that list, only Fonzie had an MLB career of any real note. The rest where either injured pitchers, or outfielders with low OPS. Some OK careers, but nothing spectacular.

While organizational kudos are nice, no one (except me apparently) remembers them. It's the pennant over the stadium that's the only thing that matters. And by any means necessary.


But they didn’t win a championship


I’ll take getting to the LCS or World Series too, even if we don’t win it. It’s why the Cespedes trade was worth it for me even if Fulmer had ended up becoming a Cy Young.


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