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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:11 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Man HK that was a LTK response.

Seems like the tl;dr is "Mets can do a quick fix and find guys for next year." Thats going to minimize the return, 100%. I'm also just super curious why we keep trying to rearrange things and tweak and think its going to work. This group doesn't work. There are very specific pieces that can be built around, but adding Hunter Renfroe does nothing - that still sticks Conforto in CF, and he can't play CF. Thats just doing the same thing.

They're not going to do this, but if you really wanted to be honest, you'd look at this situation, figure out what you can put down in sharpie, and its basically:

- Alonso at 1B
- McNeil at 2B
- DeGrom in rotation
- Conforto in RF
- Diaz and Lugo in BP

And thats really it. The other pieces don't fit. So rather than bandaiding it - theyre not going to be able to fill all that for next year. we can keep going down this path of perpetual mediocrity that ultimately crashes that we've been doing for like 20 years now, or can just try to maximize value and take the L and then when that talent is coming up, you can figure out which pieces fit, which don't and use the value accumulated to make swaps where warranted.

But there is like nothing coming up right now. Thats a major issue. Kay and Peterson are Matz and Vargas replacements, maybe. Gimenez is not an impact guy. And then everything else is years away.

Lets call this what it is.

Yeah, apologies for the ridiculous length, but it kinda had to be said.

As to the above, if you're running in place then you're falling behind. But yeah obviously if you did change direction, you'd need some things to work out in order to contend in a year or shortly thereafter. But it's kind of insane to be held back by the notion that they may not be able to address every single hole by the start of next season. Perfection isn't the enemy of very good. They'll get to where they need to be eventually, but they need to start the process.

My wish list would look like this:
Noah to Houston for Tucker, Abreu, Josh James and Jonathan Arauz.
Wheeler to StLoo for Randy Arozarena
Scooter & Frazier to CLE for Zach Plesac, Ethan Hankins and Greg Allen

James and Plesac can slot back into the Mets rotation and be works in progress but both have the ability to be mid rotation types. Abreu is rotation material in another year. Hankins (who may not be available) has a pretty high ceiling but is 3 yrs away.

Anyway that also adds 3 athletic OFers into the mix. If they are able to get Tucker, that would accelerate the opening to deal Scooter IMO. As much as I really like Conforto, if they aren't extending him, it makes no sense to hold as the clock ticks on him.

OF: Nimmo LF, Allen CF, Tucker RF. Very athletic Arozarena and Rosie both in the mix
IF: 3B McNeil, SS ?, 2B Cano, 1B Alonso. If Lowrie gets healthy by next year, keep him in the mix the way the Yankees originally planned for DJLM. And for now I'd keep Smith around as an extra piece.

So SS and C remain works in progress in this scenario. Maybe the Mets get Edman from the Cards or someone from their system (Robertson?) to enter the SS mix. Either way, go young defense-first there.

Rotation: deGrom, Matz, Plesac, James, Kay?, Peterson?, Kilome? Obviously this is where they'd have to go back to the FA market next winter, but there will be players in their $ range (all the MN starters will be FAs), etc. And the pen is going to have to largely work itself out organically.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Good news is that a bunch of divisions have tightened up but the biggest plus is that the NLC is wide open among all 5 teams. Even if you want to eliminate the Reds, it's legitimately 4 teams in the race there... not the WC but for the division. That opens up a lot more possibilities for buyers than it looked a few weeks back. I think this really helps the market for Wheeler the most. While the Brewers, Cards and Bucs may not want (or lack the ability) to give up a huge bounty for a controllable arm, they will all still be looking to add and that's where Wheeler fits in.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:17 pm 
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If they’re about to blow it up and look to 2021 or 2022 then why trade Noah in a down year and instead deal deGrom. DeGrom should yield the biggest package of high end prospects. He’s now 31 and about to get expensive. Free up the payroll for the out years and invest that into reasonable money extensions for McNeil and Alonso. Also trade Conforto, he’s a solid player and may see a few all star games but he’s looking at a Raul Ibanez type career in my opinion. Solid but not perennial all star. Trade him now hopefully to a team who still may see him as that perennial all star. Also deal Vargas wheeler Ramos and Frazier.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Wow, Nick Solak to the Rangers. Jon Daniels is having a pretty good year.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Andrew Cashner to the Red Sox.


8)

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Whatever.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
Wheeler for the best near-ready arm you can get


So you're trading Wheeler for this year's Jacob Rhame?

Just QO Wheeler and get a real prospect.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Red Sox no longer a suitor for Wheeler now?

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Cano/Diaz for Kelenic/Dunn will go down as the worst trade in franchise history.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:52 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Trading Pete Alonso to open 1B for Dom Smith is like trading Noah to open a rotation spot for Walker Lockett.


I'm convinced that half of the active posters here would rather have a trade a day and a last place team for decades than a perennial contender that never makes a move.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Wheeler for the best near-ready arm you can get


So you're trading Wheeler for this year's Jacob Rhame?


Thats a stretch

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Cano/Diaz for Kelenic/Dunn will go down as the worst trade in franchise history.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Ralf wrote:
Metsfan980 wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Wheeler for the best near-ready arm you can get


So you're trading Wheeler for this year's Jacob Rhame?


Thats a stretch


No, that's exactly what you get when you trade a free-agent-to-be with value on the open market for "the best near-ready arm you can get".

Teams value young players that are about to break through more now than ever because of the economics of the game. Trading Wheeler for anything short of at least one first round talent is a waste of your chips.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
I'm convinced that half of the active posters here would rather have a trade a day and a last place team for decades than a perennial contender that never makes a move.


While the other half think we're just on the cusp of contending despite three bad years and counting and think that endlessly loading up on the cheapest veterans available will one day push us over the top.

And when it inevitably doesn't work 4th place is better than 5th place, anyway.....


8)

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 Post subject: Re: Mets Trade Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:00 pm 
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R Nitelight wrote:
Metsfan980 wrote:
I'm convinced that half of the active posters here would rather have a trade a day and a last place team for decades than a perennial contender that never makes a move.


While the other half think we're just on the cusp of contending despite three bad years and counting and think that endlessly loading up on the cheapest veterans available will one day push us over the top.

And when it inevitably doesn't work 4th place is better than 5th place, anyway.....


8)


Not a single non-Mets owner thinks that way.


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