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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:35 pm 
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If the bullpen was even halfway decent, we could have been talking about who to pitch in the wildcard playoff game


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:44 pm 
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I’m not sure I did. They have outperformed my expectations. I said 82 wins, I think, before the season. They might win like 84!

It was the way they did it. Some heroic performances. The Flair for drama. Epic loses. Such a flawed team, such little depth, yet they hung in until the last week of the season. Each win above replacement had an equal and opposite negative win below replacement. And every once in a Lagares, Juan of these players hit a bases clearing double when it was really effing needed. Todd Frazier is probably a net negative when playing everyday. But I posit and have many a time before, he was the heart of the team and the Mets chances hinged on Todd Frazier. The Mets were only going to go as far as he could take them. And he took them all the way to the last week of the season. Now, only after it’s decided, Todd’s throwing in the towel.

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:19 am 
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MikeH wrote:
I’m not sure I did. They have outperformed my expectations. I said 82 wins, I think, before the season. They might win like 84!

It was the way they did it. Some heroic performances. The Flair for drama. Epic loses. Such a flawed team, such little depth, yet they hung in until the last week of the season. Each win above replacement had an equal and opposite negative win below replacement. And every once in a Lagares, Juan of these players hit a bases clearing double when it was really effing needed. Todd Frazier is probably a net negative when playing everyday. But I posit and have many a time before, he was the heart of the team and the Mets chances hinged on Todd Frazier. The Mets were only going to go as far as he could take them. And he took them all the way to the last week of the season. Now, only after it’s decided, Todd’s throwing in the towel.



Meh I thought the depth position wise was fine. We never really saw the AAAA team being trotted out there. Even when the depth was tested, guys like Dom and JD stepped up and became key players, and big time bats.

The pen was a huge Achilles heel, really screwed the season between Edwin's fall and Familia being awful as well. The whole season the Mets really had 2 good relievers and Wilson missed about half a season. That's rough to get through. Plus NO help from the farm (like Sewald MAYBE...Thars a reach) smh.

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:51 am 
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They entertained me this year. New faces and younger guys coming through. Yes, if the Cano/Diaz deal gave us anything like what should have reasonably been expected year one they'd be solidly in a playoff spot, but stuff happened, again.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:12 am 
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I wouldn't have gone for it, but for all the bad ownership, bad front office, and bad managing it was still there to be taken.

The Brewers had the September the Mets needed to have, and therein lies the tale.


8)

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:38 am 
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Brodie will screw the team up even more this offseason and give away the entire future to do it so whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:48 am 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
MikeH wrote:
Todd Frazier shown throwing a towel white towel. It was toward Jim Riggleman and prankish, but I find this fitting. This team didn’t give up (pardon the cliche I don’t feel like expanding on it; if you watched this team, you know what I’m taking about) the entire year, until they were mathematically eliminated. Only now does this team admit defeat.

I don’t think this deserves any particular credit. Many expected them to go farther than this.


It’s not so much they were expected to go farther, they’re going to likely wind up around the win total experts predicted. It’s the way they got there that’s disappointing. If you told me before the season the rotation would be reasonably healthy, Jake would have another Cy season, Alonso was going to hit 50 HR’s and McNeil was going to become peak Daniel Murphy I would have thought the playoffs would be a given at that point.

And this idea they’d be in the playoffs if not for the bullpen that isn’t exactly comforting considering Brodie DID address the pen! He traded for Diaz, signed Familia and Wilson and practically all of it blew up. The Nats bullpen was a similar dumpster fire, they missed Max for two months and they made the playoffs relatively comfortably after overcoming their bad first month and a half.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Spacetraveler wrote:
Brodie will screw the team up even more this offseason and give away the entire future to do it so whatever.


I think Brodie swung and hit more than he missed.

Hits:
-Locked up deGrom
-Alonso called up to 25 from the get go and was a beast
-J.D. Davis
-Ramos was solid, even if Thor doesn't like him. Guy can rake for a catcher and his defense improved.
-McNeil wasn't traded in the Diaz/Cano deal
-Justin Wilson was decent
-Brad Brach was decent.
-Avilan, if used appropriately as a loogy, would have been fine with the new rules not going into effect yet
-The trade for Stroman I can live with, even with what they gave up. He was not spectacular, but gave us a chance to win. A solid #4-5 starter on anyone's roster. And he's under contract for one more year. Dude competes.

Misses:
-Kelenic and Dunn for Diaz and Cano, but I think Diaz will rebound next year, so the jury is still out. And even tough Cano's deal is an albatross, they did jettison Jay Bruce.
-Familia
-Lowrie over LeMahieu, though there was no indication that D.J. was even interested in the Mets. But Lowrie was a waste of $10 million this season (and probably next...I hope I'm wrong).


Brodie had some missteps, for sure, but I have faith that he will make some shrewd deals this winter that will help this team get to the post-season next year. Our arrow is pointing up, boys and girls.

Now go get Gerrit Cole and Will Smith!


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:02 pm 
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Dog wrote:

Brodie had some missteps, for sure, but I have faith that he will make some shrewd deals this winter that will help this team get to the post-season next year. Our arrow is pointing up, boys and girls.

Now go get Gerrit Cole and Will Smith!


The problem with making "shrewd" deals is that you need to outsmart somebody and other teams usually aren't dumb. If Brodie is buying then the other team has the sellers market advantage.

JD Davis was a nice get because he was blocked in Houston (like Dom Smith is blocked here) and Brodie paid a respectable price for a blocked and unknown player, but JD worked out.

Cleveland needed a catcher and Brodie got Lockett for Plaw - another positive swap, but that's where GM's win trades - the other team has a blocked player or the other team has a need. You don't win trades when buying unless you get lucky and the player exceeds expectations.

At risk of saying the most obvious thing ever. Winning is hard, unless you have an unlimited budget like the Dodgers or Yankees, then it's not so hard.

The good news is, the mets don't need to add too much this off-season.

They need to work out an extension or two, to help remove some money from 2020 and figure out 5th starter, backup OF and pen depth, maybe backup Catcher - as Nido probably still has options, and that's really it. The only risk comes up if Brodie trades for another all-star, but we'll see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm
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Dog wrote:
Spacetraveler wrote:
Brodie will screw the team up even more this offseason and give away the entire future to do it so whatever.


I think Brodie swung and hit more than he missed.

Hits:
-Locked up deGrom
-Alonso called up to 25 from the get go and was a beast
-J.D. Davis
-Ramos was solid, even if Thor doesn't like him. Guy can rake for a catcher and his defense improved.
-McNeil wasn't traded in the Diaz/Cano deal
-Justin Wilson was decent
-Brad Brach was decent.
-Avilan, if used appropriately as a loogy, would have been fine with the new rules not going into effect yet
-The trade for Stroman I can live with, even with what they gave up. He was not spectacular, but gave us a chance to win. A solid #4-5 starter on anyone's roster. And he's under contract for one more year. Dude competes.

Misses:
-Kelenic and Dunn for Diaz and Cano, but I think Diaz will rebound next year, so the jury is still out. And even tough Cano's deal is an albatross, they did jettison Jay Bruce.
-Familia
-Lowrie over LeMahieu, though there was no indication that D.J. was even interested in the Mets. But Lowrie was a waste of $10 million this season (and probably next...I hope I'm wrong).


Brodie had some missteps, for sure, but I have faith that he will make some shrewd deals this winter that will help this team get to the post-season next year. Our arrow is pointing up, boys and girls.

Now go get Gerrit Cole and Will Smith!



Well now, this is some whitewashed history.

Brodie gets a "win" for not including McNeil in his own terrible trade in which he initially had McNeil in? A win for swapping Kay, SWR and Vargas - who combined for more fWAR after the trade than Stroman did here - for the privilege of adding salary for next year and thinning out the only real close to ready SP we had? Brad Brach threw 13 innings here! Wilson Ramos was a below average regular (Grandal himself over Ramos basically accounts for the difference b/w Mets and Brewers this year!!).

Yeesh. You can obviously feel however you want about Brodie, but those moves range from inconsequential to badddddddddd.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm
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AllWrightNow wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
MikeH wrote:
Todd Frazier shown throwing a towel white towel. It was toward Jim Riggleman and prankish, but I find this fitting. This team didn’t give up (pardon the cliche I don’t feel like expanding on it; if you watched this team, you know what I’m taking about) the entire year, until they were mathematically eliminated. Only now does this team admit defeat.

I don’t think this deserves any particular credit. Many expected them to go farther than this.


It’s not so much they were expected to go farther, they’re going to likely wind up around the win total experts predicted. It’s the way they got there that’s disappointing. If you told me before the season the rotation would be reasonably healthy, Jake would have another Cy season, Alonso was going to hit 50 HR’s and McNeil was going to become peak Daniel Murphy I would have thought the playoffs would be a given at that point.

And this idea they’d be in the playoffs if not for the bullpen that isn’t exactly comforting considering Brodie DID address the pen! He traded for Diaz, signed Familia and Wilson and practically all of it blew up. The Nats bullpen was a similar dumpster fire, they missed Max for two months and they made the playoffs relatively comfortably after overcoming their bad first month and a half.


The early effort was there. Even just "bad" seasons from Familia and Diaz (as opposed to the nightmare seasons they had) could have put the Mets in the post season.

They should have tried to find more relief options during the season, but they didn't.

The 2019 Mets were supposed to win because of their pitching. But ultimately, they found wins in spite of it.


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 Post subject: Re: IGT: Marlins at Mets 9/25/19 (deGrom Day)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:27 pm
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Metsfan980 wrote:
The 2019 Mets were supposed to win because of their pitching. BUt ultimately, they found wins in spite of it.


That might be a little strong. They are currently 3rd in the NL in pitching WAR. Their offense, despite huge performances from a few players is 7th in the NL (basically average).

The main problem, which will likely continue to be a problem next year, is they were dead last in the league in DRS. And it wasn't even close.


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