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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:44 am 
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Maybe they're looking for someone who hasn't been fired multiple times....


8)

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8)


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:44 am 
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northway wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
Mogriffjr wrote:
Per Heyman

Hearing Carlos Beltran is very serious candidate for Mets manager. Has close relationship w/key FO guys Allard Baird and Omar Minaya, both said to support. @Ken_Rosenthal 1st linked CB to job. Interestingly, 3/4 known candidates have no MLB managing experience; also Bell, Shelton

If this were to happen, it would truly test my limit as a Met fan.


What's wrong with Beltran? I love this idea and am all in. Those fleeting opportunities when someone actually wants to be a Met shouldn't be passed up. And I think Beltran will be very, very good at it.


What I’m gathering is a substantial part of those worried about this feel that because Mickey is/was a dope, everybody who hasn’t managed for years in the NL and has demonstrated IN PRACTICE that they understand the voodoo science known as “NL strategy” they will simply welt under the pressure of having to make that first double switch.

If Mickey Callaway and Gary Discarcina couldn’t do it there’s no way Beltran can.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:00 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
What I’m gathering is a substantial part of those worried about this feel that because Mickey is/was a door, everybody who hasn’t managed for years in the NL and has demonstrated IN PRACTICE that they understand the voodoo science known as “NL strategy” they will simply well under the pressure of having to make that first double switch.

If Mickey Callaway and Gary Discarcina couldn’t do it there’s no way Beltran can.


I saw enough of Mickey Callaway's performance off the field in his time here to determine that he's just kind of a dope, an affliction which experience can help alleviate but rarely cures. Carlos Beltran, on the other hand, has done much over the years to convince me that he's both an exceptionally bright baseball mind and just a generally fantastic human being.

Specifics of these guys aside, it's just a terrible idea to take a reactionary approach to filling a managerial spot. Yes, Callaway was pretty mediocre, to put it kindly (though probably not as awful as many think). But just because this guy with little experience sucked doesn't mean that every other guy with little experience is going to suck.

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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:04 am 
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Lol i corrected the silly typo above. Meant “dope” not “door” obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:22 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Lol i corrected the silly typo above. Meant “dope” not “door” obviously.


I actually was unclear on what you were going for. Mickey can be pretty dumb so "door" might not be inaccurate.

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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:35 am 
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This is not a “reactionary” opinion on the heels of Callaway. This is my assessment of the combination of personality, media-savviness, leadership, and tactical abilities. Admittedly this is my impression from afar (as it would be with anyone here), but Beltran was never even on my radar as a future manager because I never considered him a + in any of those four categories except for his tactical knowledge of the game - he always played the game right. But as to the other things I believe are at least somewhat important qualities of a manager, I don’t recall Beltran being considered as a quasi team leader; he never stood out as particularly media- savvy, and he doesn’t even strike me as someone with the personality to be in a front-facing position.

In fairness, these impressions could be dated or haven’t worn well over time. But I put those impressions on top of the one that is that 1st timers do invariably make a lot of mistakes. People oversimplify this here and elsewhere as “so, will screw up his first double switch..?” when we’ve actually seen 2 full seasons of managerial lineup, PH, PR, bullpen, defensive switch and other screwups. So, the conventional wisdom on this is that experience running a game in real time is what one needs to anticipate these situations and react to them appropriately. Of course the learning curve may be less for other people but there will still be a learning curve. And I understand that seasoned managers fail and do stupid stuff too but you don’t expect them to mess up the basics.

For a team that will absolutely be expected to compete, given an elite top of the rotation, Alonso, McNeil and some others, it runs counter-intuitive to give them a manager who will invariably have some learning curve handicap. It’s better to have another team absorb the 1st timer’s mistakes and get someone on a 2nd gig even like an Andy Green or Ventura... not necessarily either one specifically but like that.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:54 am 
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And btw I also don’t buy the Girardi thing is more than window dressing. And Show seems like someone the Phils will glom onto. And with Madden likely in LA, one way or another they will slip out of the conversation for any of the expensive guys, and will talk up how they have found the next great manager. And just don’t let these media-created narratives fool you, as we saw happen with Mickey. Heyman- “Callaway is the hot manager name in the industry now...” Oh please.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:40 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
And btw I also don’t buy the Girardi thing is more than window dressing. And Show seems like someone the Phils will glom onto. And with Madden likely in LA, one way or another they will slip out of the conversation for any of the expensive guys, and will talk up how they have found the next great manager. And just don’t let these media-created narratives fool you, as we saw happen with Mickey. Heyman- “Callaway is the hot manager name in the industry now...” Oh please.


Callaway was sold as an analytic-driven, shrewd manager that knew how pitchers worked and thrived.

I have no clue how any of that came across to the people reporting those statements.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Eduardo Perez, anyone? Lol


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Not surprised by Perez getting an interview with Boone being the template for coming via the media. Thing is that being on MLB on XM, some of his views are out there and I’d just say that’s he’s not the most progressive thinker out there, tho I think holding one’s breath for a true progressive is a waste of time. I’m just not sure why anyone with the kind of cushy broadcast gigs Perez has would want to move into the fire of being a ML mgr.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:47 pm 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
And btw I also don’t buy the Girardi thing is more than window dressing. And Show seems like someone the Phils will glom onto. And with Madden likely in LA, one way or another they will slip out of the conversation for any of the expensive guys, and will talk up how they have found the next great manager. And just don’t let these media-created narratives fool you, as we saw happen with Mickey. Heyman- “Callaway is the hot manager name in the industry now...” Oh please.


Callaway was sold as an analytic-driven, shrewd manager that knew how pitchers worked and thrived.

I have no clue how any of that came across to the people reporting those statements.


Mostly because he hit on all the buzzwords and fly-by concepts that everyone who has ever visitors fangraphs-dot-com and now fancies themselves “analytics-savvy” recognized.

I mean as soon as he floated the concept of using his closer in situations other than the 9th- without any actual detail as to how he would employ that, what would decide that, etc- people were literally SWOONING.

Then AJ Ramos pitches a 6th inning in April and now Mickeys a bullpen genius.

It’s pretty easy to see how that went haywire. He had no substance, no feel, and no learning curve. He defended intentionally walking Andrew Knapp to face Bryce Harper as being correct. I mean, come on.


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 Post subject: Re: New Manager/Coaching Staff Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Sam Fuld has reportedly turned down an opportunity to interview. So they’re clearly looking for a fresh new face candidate based on the names we’re seeing.


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