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 Post subject: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
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Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Because it's been building up to this off season and a work stoppage is all but certain. Feel free to post articles or opinions. I lean on the side of the players, not 100%, but 80% on their side. I think the Owners are ultimately going to win however.

Owners want to reduce the luxury tax, which would be interesting. I'm a competitive balance guy and I'm not strongly opposed to that. Players union is.

https://today.in-24.com/sport/News/227199.html

The owners have also proposed a shifting from the arbitration system to a shared pool of money and a WAR based system. (more details in the article below) and a minimum age to reach free agency of 29.5, so a player starting his career at 21 would give his team 8 years, not 6.

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2021/11/15 ... rbitration

The players proposals (as far as I can tell) have less specifics, but revolve around

Arbitration after 2 years
Elevated luxury tax thresholds
Higher minimum salary

Both sides seem OK with a salary floor and anti tank measures. The players have proposed that teams can't get top 5 picks 2 years in a row, the owners, 3 years in a row.

https://metsmerizedonline.com/2021/11/m ... ners.html/

To me, this isn't even the same ballpark, it's not in the same country. It's Democrats vs Republicans levels of disagreement. I don't know how this is going to be reached or what side will give up what to make a bridge towards agreement.

The lockout/strike is likely to begin on December 1st and last until . . . June? If we're lucky. I said in the past that it would be a strike, but I'm not sure anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:21 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am
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It looks bleak when you look at initial proposals but both sides will move a lot and come to an agreement and it won’t drag into the season. I’m fairly confident in that.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:39 pm 
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Franchise Player

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:19 pm
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No way an age of 29.5 for free agency will EVER get passed....the owners better give up on that asap.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:50 pm 
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All Star

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 am
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Location: Studio 54
Once there is a strike or lockout, just kiss 2022 goodbye. A summer without the aggravation of another losing season looks pretty good right about now.

The minor leagues will still play however, yes? I can get to plenty of AAA and AA games from my home.

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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:10 pm 
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Blue Chipper

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:09 am
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Joefrompgh wrote:
No way an age of 29.5 for free agency will EVER get passed....the owners better give up on that asap.


While an age for free agency will help finally get rid of all the service time manipulation stuff that is anti-competitive, this is not it.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:48 pm 
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NYFS Hall of Famer

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Why don’t minor league players also have a union? The conditions and wages are criminal. Until that happens, any labor dispute between the players and the owners feels like it’s missing any real stakes. Sure, I’ll still side with the players on pretty much every issue, but I can’t fully back them until minor leaguers get a bigger slice of the pie.

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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:27 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:55 am
Posts: 9087
NBA-like lottery for the top 3 picks?

Expand playoffs to 14 teams?

Division winners PICK ON LIVE TV who they want to face in playoffs?


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/327 ... gotiations


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:31 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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MikeH wrote:
Why don’t minor league players also have a union? The conditions and wages are criminal. Until that happens, any labor dispute between the players and the owners feels like it’s missing any real stakes. Sure, I’ll still side with the players on pretty much every issue, but I can’t fully back them until minor leaguers get a bigger slice of the pie.


I agree, but there's currently a lawsuit on that, so it won't even be part of the talks until the courts reach a ruling which is a slow process. A year, maybe two.

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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:34 pm 
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Rookie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 1:33 pm
Posts: 728
Really don't like the expanded playoffs. If they want to convince people to watch 162 regular season games, they need to make the case that each game actually matters. If nearly half of the league gets into the playoffs, it's hard to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:06 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm
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TheUpperDeck wrote:
Really don't like the expanded playoffs. If they want to convince people to watch 162 regular season games, they need to make the case that each game actually matters. If nearly half of the league gets into the playoffs, it's hard to do that.


In their mind more teams being in a playoff race > the playoff teams' fans tuning out because they're already in based on being fifteen games in front of the .500 seven seeds in September, especially since it de-incentivizes tanking to have more teams in.

I do agree that in a long season like baseball having more playoff teams is stupid though, this isn't a 16 or even 82-game season where some randomness is involved in a couple of streaks throughout the season. It makes the regular season a bit more meaningless and the postseason even more random than it already is.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:28 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:14 pm
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If they want expanded playoffs they should make two leagues and have straight standings. Cut the regular season and have playoffs all 7 game series from like mid Sept through Oct.


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 Post subject: Re: Players vs. Owners 2021/22 off season thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:16 pm 
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Rookie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 1:33 pm
Posts: 728
AllWrightNow wrote:
TheUpperDeck wrote:
Really don't like the expanded playoffs. If they want to convince people to watch 162 regular season games, they need to make the case that each game actually matters. If nearly half of the league gets into the playoffs, it's hard to do that.


In their mind more teams being in a playoff race > the playoff teams' fans tuning out because they're already in based on being fifteen games in front of the .500 seven seeds in September, especially since it de-incentivizes tanking to have more teams in.

I do agree that in a long season like baseball having more playoff teams is stupid though, this isn't a 16 or even 82-game season where some randomness is involved in a couple of streaks throughout the season. It makes the regular season a bit more meaningless and the postseason even more random than it already is.


This is what I was getting at. There are other ways to address tanking.


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