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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Oh and plenty of folks said Brad Marquez was a complete waste because your investing money in someone who needed a lot of development, and wasn't going to be able to commit the time to that.

So yeah, predicting failure for all picks doesn't get you a gold star. But if you have a reason for doing so and it turns out to be the thing that torpedoes the pick eventually, I think its valid to call back to that.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:19 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Oh and plenty of folks said Brad Marquez was a complete waste because your investing money in someone who needed a lot of development, and wasn't going to be able to commit the time to that.

So yeah, predicting failure for all picks doesn't get you a gold star. But if you have a reason for doing so and it turns out to be the thing that torpedoes the pick eventually, I think its valid to call back to that.


OK, but I remember a lot more positive than negative at the time of the Marquez signing.

and is what you say valid about not liking a draft pic. Sure. Of-course. But having a valid reason to dislike a draft pick doesn't prove anything and it doesn't make people wrong for liking the pick.

Alex Nelson didn't hate the Hermann signing, his willingness to sign for example and some upside. Alex seemed to like him, though he thought the upside was limited.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/6/17/4 ... n-herrmann

Alex Nelson on Kaupe: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/6/5/30 ... nden-kaupe

Quote:
he's fast. Very, very fast. He runs a 6.43 60-yard dash, which is plus speed, maybe even plus-plus. I believe he is instantly the fastest guy in the Mets organization.


Quote:
At the plate, the switch-hitter (the swing looked pretty natural from both sides)


Quote:
That strength gives him well above average batspeed, and he's quite capable of driving balls into the gaps, at least . So there's definitely promise to work with here.


Quote:
His commitment was only to Central Arizona Community College, and he was considered signable before the 10th round. Regardless of that, there's some definite potential for Kaupe to develop into a top-of-the-lineup catalyst who can play solid defense at second, but he probably has a long way to go. I like him.


So, fine, HK says he's a 30th round pick. I think Alex Nelson would disagree. A signable HS kid with those tools is way higher than 30th round. A HS kid who doesn't sign, with those tools, he's 30th round but one who will sign, much earlier. He didn't work out. Most don't work out. Not working out doesn't make him a bad draft pick. Alex Nelson thought he was a good pick, so, I wasn't "wrong" for thinking that.

Now, on Dan Hermann, I have to wonder, does anyone think he missed the plate that much, perhaps, on purpose, that he didn't really ever want to play baseball, he just wanted to get paid, work out, ride around in a buss for a couple years, then get free college? Maybe it's wrong of me to think that, but I'm sure it happens. I'm sure there's guys who get drafted but fairly soon after lose any real desire to work their way towards being the best players they can be and trying to reach majors. Brad Holt comes to mind as another possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:49 pm 
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How did I know you were going to dig up some 4 year old report that indicated somebody didn't hate Kaupe...? Point is that real talent is available in the 4th rd, not some obscure Hawaiian jockey.

As the clip says, "signable before the 10th round." There, nobody would have had a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:13 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
How did I know you were going to dig up some 4 year old report that indicated somebody didn't hate Kaupe...? Point is that real talent is available in the 4th rd, not some obscure Hawaiian jockey.

As the clip says, "signable before the 10th round." There, nobody would have had a problem.


Alex Nelson liked Kaupe, he said there were big questions but significant positives. And if you're going to talk about whether a pick was good at the time, 4 year old reports is fair game. Quoting performance is revisionist. If the debate is, did the pick work out - that's different. Kaupe didn't work out. We agree on that.

Should the mets have waited on Kaupe till the 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th rounds? I suppose. I don't think that makes a huge difference in their overall draft if they do. Not sure you had in mind in the 4th round at the time. Mostly those guys don't amount to much. (If you say you wanted Lamb, one, I won't believe you and two, mets could have taken Lamb round 5 and round 6, so if they'd liked him, they had the opportunity).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft ... ranch_year

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:38 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Reminiscent of Tej arguing to me that Hermann was a solid pick to the end, as well.


Whoa whoa whoa whoa there bucko. Back up. You can kill me for a lot of my stances on a lot of things. Not this one.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39193

tejdog1 wrote:
6'4/205 is pretty filled out already, no? I very oddly, and with no rhyme/reason or anything, get a Rob Carson vibe here.


That was not a complimentary comp I threw out there.

tejdog1 wrote:
Do not like the sound of this guy, tbh.

tejdog1 wrote:
Another curious overslot signing here. Why can't they go for a shot at JB? Go offer him 850k and see if he signs!

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Remember when Tej praised the Eddie Kunz pick? ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:37 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Remember when Tej praised the Eddie Kunz pick? ;-)


Oh yeah, that definitely happened

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:43 am 
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Any word on negotiations?


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:40 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
HeyNowHK wrote:
How did I know you were going to dig up some 4 year old report that indicated somebody didn't hate Kaupe...? Point is that real talent is available in the 4th rd, not some obscure Hawaiian jockey.

As the clip says, "signable before the 10th round." There, nobody would have had a problem.


Alex Nelson liked Kaupe, he said there were big questions but significant positives. And if you're going to talk about whether a pick was good at the time, 4 year old reports is fair game. Quoting performance is revisionist. If the debate is, did the pick work out - that's different. Kaupe didn't work out. We agree on that.

Should the mets have waited on Kaupe till the 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th rounds? I suppose. I don't think that makes a huge difference in their overall draft if they do. Not sure you had in mind in the 4th round at the time. Mostly those guys don't amount to much. (If you say you wanted Lamb, one, I won't believe you and two, mets could have taken Lamb round 5 and round 6, so if they'd liked him, they had the opportunity).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft ... ranch_year

I'm not talking about a specific guy they missed and it's not revisionist. I've explained why it wasn't appropriate for a 4th rd pick. I shook my head at the time of the pick - 5'4" 150 lb Hawaiian not on the BA500 taken at 140...? It never made sense other than as a financial gimmick. I'm not patting myself on the back with this bc I don't think that seeing that pick as a large reach is something special. Everyone I saw at the time (before my time here) mocked the pick.

You're obviously free to think otherwise but it doesn't seem that your case is strong especially with the benefit of hindsight, that is unless you want debate the idea of "waste" in the context of the original comment... But that's really the point - that Kaupe has become a punchline, and that's what it was meant as in the original comment here - not meant as a point to re-litigate.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:01 pm 
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HeyNowHK wrote:
I'm not talking about a specific guy they missed and it's not revisionist. I've explained why it wasn't appropriate for a 4th rd pick. I shook my head at the time of the pick - 5'4" 150 lb Hawaiian not on the BA500 taken at 140...? It never made sense other than as a financial gimmick. I'm not patting myself on the back with this bc I don't think that seeing that pick as a large reach is something special. Everyone I saw at the time (before my time here) mocked the pick.

You're obviously free to think otherwise but it doesn't seem that your case is strong especially with the benefit of hindsight, that is unless you want debate the idea of "waste" in the context of the original comment... But that's really the point - that Kaupe has become a punchline, and that's what it was meant as in the original comment here - not meant as a point to re-litigate.


I don't put much stock in BA's draft rankings. I liked Alonso the minute I saw him swing the bat. I saw a combination of power and not stiff, where his hit tool could translate into MLB. I liked him immediately. With Kaupe, I liked his physical strength and reported plus to plus-plus speed and switch hit/no strikeout combo, though his speed turned out to be exaggerated (maybe a lot of guys lose speed after they turn 18, not sure what the whole speed often being exaggerated thing is about).

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:34 pm 
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So much for signing the "minute" his season ended

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 Mets Draft, Round 02, Pick 64: 1b Pete Alonso
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:02 am 
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tejdog1 wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Reminiscent of Tej arguing to me that Hermann was a solid pick to the end, as well.


Whoa whoa whoa whoa there bucko. Back up. You can kill me for a lot of my stances on a lot of things. Not this one.

.


:)

tejdog1 wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Has now issued 13 walks and hit at least 2 batters without striking a single guy out this year. IN THE GCL. THIS IS A LEVEL BELOW THE IVAN WILSON'S OF THE WORLD.

Amazing.

The good news is that he has only allowed 2 hits all season in his 4.1 innings.

Whoever that scout was: good try, good effort to get yourself noted for making a pick that was the exact opposite of scouting the box score...but yeesh. Can't exactly act surprised that a kid who was an awful high school pitcher can't get professional hitters, no matter the level, out.


Not sure if you're mocking here or not, but it was a good pick. Didn't waste too much money (200k? I believe) to take a shot in the dark on a guy who might clean up mechanically, maybe add a few ticks, and develop into something.

Take this type of pick 100/100 times over a Jeff Kaplan or Chris Schwinden, that's for sure (and I'm FULLY aware in an alternative universe Chris Schwinden's name is Dillon Gee).


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