MESSAGE BOARDS TOOLS:  Search | Members | User Control Panel |   | Login 


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:41 pm 
User avatar
Online
NYFS Staff

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:37 am
Posts: 23311
Location: charleston, sc
Genmet wrote:
JDawg - Of course, you very skillfully outlined all of the pitfalls of assessing teachers - and, by the way, as a chairperson I still teach 2 classes and think of myself as a teacher much more than an administrator. The "gotcha" point is a great one. Administrators need to build trust and camaraderie with staff, just as we do with our students. If teachers know you support their efforts and value their talents, then any critical suggestions are easy to deliver in a constructive fashion. And, when dealing with tenured staff, any suggestions I may have are given in the post-observation conference and never written into the report.


I served as an Instructional Coach this past year...a role I have always informally played as yearly teacher turnover has been high at my school... and I feel I did more in working with teachers by talking to them, asking them, meta-cognitively, questions, and observing at different times of periods and providing exclusive feedback (my principal was kind enough to accept a log of my observations rather than the notes and comments in the actual obs).

Not astoundingly, not all observational evidence agreed with test data; which means, to me, that sometimes the data is influenced by other things, and certainly, my observations could be flawed as well. But my intent was to help teachers grow and improve their level of rigor and instruction.

It makes the whole evaluation thing more complex. And ultimately, I believe the paradigm in public education should look at young teachers growing into the profession by the efforts of older, more experienced teachers, rather than evaluating them out of the system.

The apprenticeship system in Europe was all about patience and thorough training (on the job) over time, and not about throwing novices to the wolves.

_________________
"The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." Steven Biko


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 am 
User avatar
Offline
Fan Favorite

Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 1803
a few things:
i switched careers at forty to become a teacher in the worst school in my state.

previously i was in the real world working for a "real businness" as a competitive intelligence analyst. So I was exposed to performance based pay and the many many different ways many different 'real' companies pay their employees. So i get it when it comes to pay.

There is no " battle pay" for teaching in "bad schools" in my state.

Within three years i took my kids from a 20% pass rate on the state exam to a 75% pass rate. None of the teachers in my school or district came close to this .
I did not recieve one extra cent for my performance. or WART wins above replacement teacher.

While i believe i deserve more pay I do NOT want teachers to make more.
While i beleive i deserve more pay than other teachers i do not see a fair way to make that happen.

You make the gig a well paying gig and people who dont like the gig but like the pay start coming in.... you have to love this to this .....

you start paying on scores and thats the end of the world as we know it. Suddenly everything would be crooked. If it was based on score alone principals could assign fave teachers the highset scoring kids.If it was based on increased scores principals would assign fave teacher the students most likely to have the highest increase. think about that.

Nobody would want honors or smart kids with prevously high scores because they would be be less apt to increase score dramatically. so less possibility for pay increase.
the unltra low kids would be assigned to teachers you were trying to weed out because the likely hood of increases although possibly would be unlikely. Furthermore it could degenrate to challenged kids with challenged teachers.

The kids people would covet would be the ones in the middle who could provide a realiable increase.

Start tieing pay to score and teachers start thinking about where and who to teach rather than HOW to teach

You guys are smart here you know how every metric can be misleading.

This is a ramble and i am on sumer skool break

i dont type like a teacher here cos i dont need to.

alhough i would like more money and i feel my performance deserves more money,
i don't see a realistically fair way of doing it just too much room for graft and corruption.

and as far as run it more like a business.... hmmm it doesnt seem to me that THAT many businesses have really been performing any more successfully than our schools.

_________________
Gil Hodges should be in the Hall of Fame

"The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?"
— Bob Marley

"I understand how the modern media work, but generally the only person familiar with my thinking and authorized to speak on my behalf is, well, me."
Mike Lupica on the state of modern day "sourcing" in journalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:09 pm 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Hall of Famer

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 5447
Location: Walking Distance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHJkvEwyhk

Matt Damon defends teachers. A few cuss words.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:44 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 23737
Location: Pittsburgh
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
My wife always maintains that often, her hands are tied in circumstances because her students come from homes where learning is not reinforced, the assignments she gives her kids are not followed-through with outside of the school hours, and any potential repercussions are laughed at because the kids know the parents won't side with the school anyway. Or, even worse, the kids (especially her youngsters) seem generally interested in making school a priority, but they are completely devoid of a support system in the home, and how does a 6 or 7 year old learn to work independently at home without the assistance of their deadbeat/absentee parents/guardians? And with that, with her school's constant "underperformance", even against other elementaries in her district (there is a seriously varied socioeconomic spectrum even with the town she teaches in, and the schools at the elementary level definitely reflect that), she maintains cannot feasibly be held against her and her coworkers. In fact, she maintains she works twice as hard as those in a similar position to her in some of the other schools, with all the follow-up work she needs to do and reinforcing/conferences (in addition to her district housing the intensive special-needs program in her building, as well).


I teach Korean kids at a private kindergarten, so my situation doesn't dovetail perfectly, but I can testify that parental assistance is huge. Note, my school costs close to $1,000 a month, so all the families are very, very well off, but deadbeat parents are still a bit of an issue. The kids who don't get the help at home generally fail to learn English, despite receiving the same instruction and coming from the same socioeconomic background as their classmates. One thing that's particularly interesting to me is that their ability to improve dovetails much more closely with how much assistance they get from their parents, rather than how well those parents speak English. As such, I have kids whose moms help them every day with English, despite having very little English ability, who improve markedly, while I have other students whose parents speak English flawlessly but don't help them too much, who subsequently don't improve at all.

Sorry to get tangential, but having been teaching for about two years now, that's my two cents.

_________________
Baseball has a way of ripping your ❤️ out, stabbing it, putting it back in your chest, then healing itself just in time for Spring Training. - Thor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:30 am 
User avatar
Offline
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 11834
Bottom line is that home life is the number one factor.

_________________
Free David Wright


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What Teachers Make
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:52 pm 
User avatar
Offline
NYFS Staff

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:39 pm
Posts: 22630
Location: Jersey City
Azmetaholic wrote:
Bottom line is that home life is the number one factor.


As it is in so many areas of people's development

_________________
Hats off to Sandy. Hats off to the Wilpons. And don't forget Yoenis Cespedes, a star who wanted to stay a Met.

--------------------------------------------------------
You can PayPal donations to donations@nyfuturestars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


SUPPORT NYFS VIA OUR NETWORK OF SITES: FIND AN AA MEETING | FIND A JOB NEAR YOU | SUICIDE DEPRESSION ADDICTION HELP | BOOK REVIEWS EDITORIAL | LOCAL DOCTORS HOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE | HOME REPAIR CONTRACTOR BUILDER AC HEAT | LOCAL LIVE MUSIC OPEN MIC JAM | FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND WHERE TO VOTE | WOMEN VETERANS HELP SUPPORT AND RESOURCES | THE SOULCIALISTS LIVE LOCAL PIANO MUSIC TREASURE COAST | PET FRIENDLY PARKS HOTELS | SOLAR WIND RENEWABLE POWER | FILE TAX RETURN ATTORNEY | 4G SEO SMART PHONES TABLET WEB | BIRTHDAY PARTY RENTAL CHARACTERS | HOMES APARTMENTS FOR SALE OR RENT NEAR YOU | SPORT COURT GYM FITNESS CLUB TRACK FIELD | GOLF BEACH RESORT HOTELS RESTAURANTS BED BREAKFAST | HEALTH LIFE AUTO HOME INSURANCE QUOTE | METRO BUS TRAIN SUBWAY AIRPORT HELIPORT | VETERAN TIPS CRAFT DIY RECIPES | ATM BRANCH CONSOLIDATION STUDENT CREDIT LOAN RATES | LOCAL NEWS AND RSS FEEDS | CHRISTMAS BLACK FRIDAY BACK TO SCHOOL SALE | LATEST E NEWS ON MOVIES TV GAMES GIFTS BOOKS | LAST MINUTE ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY HOUSE WARMING GIFTS NEAR YOU | LOCAL ARTS CRAFTS SUPPLY STORE | LOCAL HEALTHY HEART DIABETIC RESTAURANTS AND STORES | CHURCH TEMPLE MOSQUE OR PLACE OF WORSHIP NEAR YOU | LOCAL LINKS TO RESTAURANTS AIRPORTS DRUG STORES | DRUG OXY OPIATE ALCOHOL PHYSICAL REHAB | SUICIDE HOTLINE DANIELLE COLBERT PHOTO MUG SHOT | © Untraditional Media

The%20Soulcialists