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 Post subject: A discussion on 60's pitchers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:09 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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Location: hanging with Tony B in the clubhouse
Historians have rated pitchers like Drysdale, Koufax, Gibson, Jenkins and Marichal as some of the best pitchers in baseball history. I don't think anyone can disagree that they were outstanding but my question is, were they overrated due to the era they pitched in?

After 1963 baseball let umpires call a larger strike zone. Pitchers mounds were very high. Night baseball was almost the rule and not the exception. Several new parks came into being. After 1968, they shrank the strike zone and enforced the height of the mound. I wouldn't say these guys became ineffective but they weren't quite as good as they were before.

Of course Koufax had the arm troubles that made him retire so we'll never know how he would have done after 1968. Also most, if not all of these guys were not that great before 1964. They all had talent but they couldn't put it all together yet. Was their greatness due to putting it all together or did they get an extra-friendly nudge from the rules?

Teams also played the game accordingly. They knew they wouldn't score a lot so they played for 1 run a lot. That had to depress run totals.

Should historians treat the '60s for pitchers much like they are going to treat the '90s-today for sluggers? Discuss.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:23 pm 
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Everyday Player

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I'm all for seniors staying active, but when your 60 years old you shouldn't be throwing a baseball. How old was Charlie Hough when he finally retired anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: A discussion on 60's pitchers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:16 pm
Posts: 187
Nutsacjac wrote:
Historians have rated pitchers like Drysdale, Koufax, Gibson, Jenkins and Marichal as some of the best pitchers in baseball history. I don't think anyone can disagree that they were outstanding but my question is, were they overrated due to the era they pitched in?

After 1963 baseball let umpires call a larger strike zone. Pitchers mounds were very high. Night baseball was almost the rule and not the exception. Several new parks came into being. After 1968, they shrank the strike zone and enforced the height of the mound. I wouldn't say these guys became ineffective but they weren't quite as good as they were before.

Of course Koufax had the arm troubles that made him retire so we'll never know how he would have done after 1968. Also most, if not all of these guys were not that great before 1964. They all had talent but they couldn't put it all together yet. Was their greatness due to putting it all together or did they get an extra-friendly nudge from the rules?

Teams also played the game accordingly. They knew they wouldn't score a lot so they played for 1 run a lot. That had to depress run totals.

Should historians treat the '60s for pitchers much like they are going to treat the '90s-today for sluggers? Discuss.


I think that it's a legitimate discussion and worth the debate...however, unless they could magically be thrust into this era, it's impossible to really find an answer...

I have long hated the shruken strike zone and long for the days of the "if it's close it's a strike"...but today's fans want the long ball...


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 Post subject: Re: A discussion on 60's pitchers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:06 am 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:56 am
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Location: hanging with Tony B in the clubhouse
Heals wrote:
I have long hated the shruken strike zone and long for the days of the "if it's close it's a strike"...but today's fans want the long ball...


More than that, the MLB establishment wants the long ball.

I appreciate a 2-1 game far more than a 11-10 slugfest.

_________________
Anyone who quotes profits of a baseball club is missing the point. Under generally accepted accounting principles, I can turn a $4 million profit into a $2 million loss, and I can get every national accounting firm to agree with me. - Paul Beeston, CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays


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 Post subject: Re: A discussion on 60's pitchers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:19 am 
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All Star

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:46 am
Posts: 2170
Heals wrote:
Nutsacjac wrote:
Historians have rated pitchers like Drysdale, Koufax, Gibson, Jenkins and Marichal as some of the best pitchers in baseball history. I don't think anyone can disagree that they were outstanding but my question is, were they overrated due to the era they pitched in?

After 1963 baseball let umpires call a larger strike zone. Pitchers mounds were very high. Night baseball was almost the rule and not the exception. Several new parks came into being. After 1968, they shrank the strike zone and enforced the height of the mound. I wouldn't say these guys became ineffective but they weren't quite as good as they were before.

Of course Koufax had the arm troubles that made him retire so we'll never know how he would have done after 1968. Also most, if not all of these guys were not that great before 1964. They all had talent but they couldn't put it all together yet. Was their greatness due to putting it all together or did they get an extra-friendly nudge from the rules?

Teams also played the game accordingly. They knew they wouldn't score a lot so they played for 1 run a lot. That had to depress run totals.

Should historians treat the '60s for pitchers much like they are going to treat the '90s-today for sluggers? Discuss.


I think that it's a legitimate discussion and worth the debate...however, unless they could magically be thrust into this era, it's impossible to really find an answer...

I have long hated the shruken strike zone and long for the days of the "if it's close it's a strike"...but today's fans want the long ball...


I just wish they'd call the strike zone. Forget "if it's close". If it's IN THE STRIKE ZONE call it a strike. The inconsistency of umpires who call their own K zone is ridiculous. Letters to knees, 17" wide.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:48 am 
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I have no problem with umpires calling different strike zones, as long as they're close and consistent throughout the entire game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:07 pm 
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All I know is that in his short career, Koufax threw four no hitters.

He was a lefty that threw in the mid 90's with a nasty hook and wasn't afraid to pitch inside.

Sandy Koufax would absolutely dominate in any era. Just because of how hard he htrew, how good his curveball was, and the fact that he is a lefty.

He was also as good a basketball player as he was a pitcher.


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