NL MVP Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

jdawginsc · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:19 am

Uh...not the HGH/steroids debate again...

Chico · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:58 pm

Genmet wrote:

nmigliore wrote:

Really disappointing to here. Braun is one of my favorite non-Met players.

Not being at all flippant or sarcastic here, just sincerely wondering why this would in any way diminish your fondness for Braun. The steroid/HGH/PED rules are a completely arfiticial construct. If I were a professional athlete I would feel no compulsion to abide by such silliness.

Aren't all rules and laws "artificial constructs"?

thebull · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am **Posts:** 8255

Nutsacjac wrote:

Quote:

Since being informed of the results, Braun has been disputing his case. A source close to Braun said that when he was told about the positive test, he immediately requested to be tested again. That second test, the source said, was not positive.Those close to Braun believe that the difference between the two tests will show that the first test was invalid.

Sounds like the random test caught him in the middle of a cycle and he got busted. Sorry dude, those are the chances you take, especially since they caught him with synthetic testosterone in his sample.

He didn't test positive for a PED, but a "banned substance."

Genmet · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:10 pm

Chico wrote:

Genmet wrote:

nmigliore wrote:

Really disappointing to here. Braun is one of my favorite non-Met players.

Not being at all flippant or sarcastic here, just sincerely wondering why this would in any way diminish your fondness for Braun. The steroid/HGH/PED rules are a completely arfiticial construct. If I were a professional athlete I would feel no compulsion to abide by such silliness.

Aren't all rules and laws "artificial constructs"?

No, not at all. Many of them prohibit behavior that is obviously harmful to others - the difference between mala en se and mala prohibita. Telling me Braun took PED's has the same effect on me as if you told me he drove 56 mph in a 55 zone.

Hilltop · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:16 pm

The only person ever exonerated was Contador, the Tour de France winner who had eaten beef laced with Albuterol, I believe. Perhaps Braun will be able to prove the same is true for him, meaning he took something that was tampered with, which is the only reason Contador was exonerated; the beef was contaminated and no reasonable person would know so.

jdawginsc · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Players accept their contracts including the provisions regarding PEDs. They accept the amount allotted and contractually agree to standards of behavior. They may disagree with MLB-Labor's policies regarding HGH/Steroids, but they are contractually required to abide by them.

As teachers, we know what the policies are on testing and test preparation. If we do not abide by these ethical standards and we do not get caught, no one is hurt, except in relative terms. If we do get caught, we are made to atone through revocation of our license and removal from the profession.

The penalties for cheating in baseball are much less lethal as those in financial markets (if enforced), education, medicine and law.

Genmet · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:19 pm

They don't necessarily agree to abide by the policy. For any individual the agreement could simply be that he agrees that if he is caught, the penalty will be enforced. This is really the nature of contracts - the concept of consideration. If A occurs, then B occurs.

jdawginsc · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:21 pm

I am going to disagree with you there, Genmet; signing a contract acknowledges behavior expectations negotiated through the MLBPA and the MLB. We explicitly sign a contract when we drive a car, but implicitly understand that there are things we cannot do according to the terms. Basically, you are saying that contracts simply state terms and consequences...whereas I see it quite differently--it is an agreement between parties on terms--the consequences are secondary.

Hopefully I explained my perspective well enough since it is a subtle difference; The results are the same in any case.

R Nitelight · **Joined:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 pm **Posts:** 32520

Rotoworld:

Quote:

Ryan Braun's testosterone levels during his failed drug test were "insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken," a source told Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News.

Braun told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on Saturday that he's "completely innocent" of the PED charge, claiming the test results were a false positive. Yahoo! Sports' Jeff Passan spoke to an expert that said false positives results are almost impossible using MLB's carbon-isotope-ratio test. Thompson's source, however, said Braun's case involves "highly unusual circumstances." Braun will probably enlist doctors and health experts in appealing his 50-game suspension, but players are 0-for-13 against Major League Baseball in PED test appeals. While his test results are highly unusual, enough so to potentially call into question the test results, Braun has very little chance of winning the appeal.

Genmet · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:20 pm

jdawginsc wrote:

I am going to disagree with you there, Genmet; signing a contract acknowledges behavior expectations negotiated through the MLBPA and the MLB. We explicitly sign a contract when we drive a car, but implicitly understand that there are things we cannot do according to the terms. Basically, you are saying that contracts simply state terms and consequences...whereas I see it quite differently--it is an agreement between parties on terms--the consequences are secondary.

Hopefully I explained my perspective well enough since it is a subtle difference; The results are the same in any case.

You explained it very well, and I appreciate your argument. Funny, after your original post I thought about the driving a car analogy. When I drive 56 I know I am breaking the "contract", and if pulled over will pay the fine with no complaint. That's exactly how I feel about what Braun did.

jdawginsc · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:08 pm

I see that, but driving 56 is still breaking the rules...we are knowingly not abiding and breaking the rules in order to gain advantage over other drivers following the rules...

Hee hee.

Prospectus · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:22 pm

Not sure about the speed analogy as usually when you get down to it the engines are mostly at the same level with certain differences be it by manufacturer and age of the car. It would have to be what was put in the car that makes somebody go absurd levels of speed that is probably illegal for the PED analogy to be apt, imo.

NL MVP Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

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