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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:09 am 
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Practically A Wilpon

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#5 wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
#5 wrote:
I understand the basic workings, but that's not entirely true. His 94 season was an abnormally lucky season for him. Same could be said about 87. Not saying it's not because he's not good, but just more balls finding open spaces.

I'm just asking, is there an argument to even use BABIP for a player like Gwynn? It seems that almost EVERY year his BABIP was just so high that he almost "defied" the rule that BABIP is used to measure luck (early, not over a long period of time if that BABIP stays the course)

For individual stretches or even seasons, sure.

If a guy like Lucas Duda (career .294 BABIP) all of a sudden hits for a .340 BABIP next year, he's probably getting quite a bit lucky and his numbers are a bit inflated. If David Wright (career .340 BABIP) hits for that same .340 BABIP, he's likely not getting any luck, good or bad, and his stats are very legitimate.

Gwynn might have had certain seasons where he got lucky and certain seasons where he got unlucky, but overall you assume it evens out.


Right, that's what I mean. I understand the concept of it completely.

I was just having a discussion with a buddy of mine about Gwynn earlier. I basically said Gwynn "defied" the rule of BABIP. He always hit for a ridiculously high BABIP. A 5 year stretch even that was out of hand.

Would you (or anyone for that matter) basically say using BABIP for a guy like Gwynn is more or less useless?

I wouldn't say it's useless. I would say his standards are very high.


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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:00 pm 
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The most brilliant baseball hitter I ever saw. His and Maddux baseball IQs were off the charts.

He and Kirby Puckett were my favorite players when it was evident that baseball began the path to the dark side of PEDs and nasty demeanors.

Loved Tony Gwynn. Loved Kirby Puckett.

Seems the awesome guys go too soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:47 am 
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jdawginsc wrote:
The most brilliant baseball hitter I ever saw. His and Maddux baseball IQs were off the charts.

He and Kirby Puckett were my favorite players when it was evident that baseball began the path to the dark side of PEDs and nasty demeanors.

Loved Tony Gwynn. Loved Kirby Puckett.

Seems the awesome guys go too soon.


I don't want to speak ill of the deceased, but lumping Tony Gwynn and Kirby Puckett together does not do Tony Gwynn "the person" justice.

Puckett was revealed to be a violent, abusive philanderer.

Tony Gwynn, on top of being one of the best hitters of all time, had a reputation of being one of the all-time good people as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:52 am 
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To the earlier point about BABIP - thought the comparison of Duda vs. Wright apt. When a guy hits as well as Gwynn did, his BABIP becomes a barometer that marks an elite talent. Its a measuring stick, if you will, especially when guys are being considered for post-season awards, and, eventually, the hall of fame.

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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:45 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
jdawginsc wrote:
The most brilliant baseball hitter I ever saw. His and Maddux baseball IQs were off the charts.

He and Kirby Puckett were my favorite players when it was evident that baseball began the path to the dark side of PEDs and nasty demeanors.

Loved Tony Gwynn. Loved Kirby Puckett.

Seems the awesome guys go too soon.


I don't want to speak ill of the deceased, but lumping Tony Gwynn and Kirby Puckett together does not do Tony Gwynn "the person" justice.

Puckett was revealed to be a violent, abusive philanderer.

Tony Gwynn, on top of being one of the best hitters of all time, had a reputation of being one of the all-time good people as well.


Did not know that about Puckett... Well, that whittles my all time guys list to Gwynn, Mookie, Rusty and Clemente.

Hopefully, no unknowns about any of those.

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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:13 am 
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ilikeike29 wrote:
Chico wrote:
Great stat I saw today-he had one (ONE!!!) Game in his entire career where he struck out 3 times. :shock:

Dick Enberg was on a show and said when people asked Gwynn about playing big parks, he'd say: "I might not hit home runs, but think about all that green (grass out there)."

It was actually that he only struck out 3 times against one pitcher in one game once. Still incredible.


I believe it's that he only stuck out 3 times in a game once, regardless of pitcher.

The remarkable part of it is that the pitcher who struck him out 3 times in a game was Bob Welch. Welch had passed away just 7 days earlier, also far too young (57)


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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:01 pm 
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sluger11787 wrote:
ilikeike29 wrote:
Chico wrote:
Great stat I saw today-he had one (ONE!!!) Game in his entire career where he struck out 3 times. :shock:

Dick Enberg was on a show and said when people asked Gwynn about playing big parks, he'd say: "I might not hit home runs, but think about all that green (grass out there)."

It was actually that he only struck out 3 times against one pitcher in one game once. Still incredible.


I believe it's that he only stuck out 3 times in a game once, regardless of pitcher.

The remarkable part of it is that the pitcher who struck him out 3 times in a game was Bob Welch. Welch had passed away just 7 days earlier, also far too young (57)



Yeah, that was one if life's oddities.

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 Post subject: Re: Tony Gwynn passes away at 54.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:19 pm 
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You can see the respect for him here.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level ... g-about-it

(Even Phillies fans can be nice occasionally)


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