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 Post subject: Relief Pitchers in the Hall
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:04 pm 
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Of all things, it was the mention of Papelbom in the game thread that got me thinking about this. Relief Pitchers & the Hall.

Mariano's a lock, first ballot, possible shot at unanimous vote.

Trevor Hoffman and his 601 saves I think gets him in, not first ballot but he should get in.

Wagner, my opinion, falls short. His numbers are arguably better than some already in there, I don't think he gets the votes. The election committee is quite penny pinching and Wager's not quite there IMHO. I wouldn't cry foul if he did get in, but I don't see it.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/1 ... -york-mets

Quote:
So, if you believe that relief pitchers belong in the Hall (where right now, only four real relievers reside) -- as I do -- then the idea of Wagner joining them isn't far-fetched at all. The current relievers in the Hall are Hoyt Wilhelm, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Rollie Fingers, and Bruce Sutter. Wilhelm and Gossage are kind of no-brainers in some ways -- both guys threw tons of innings and carry the third- and fourth-best JAWS scores among relief pitchers (behind only Dennis Eckersley and Rivera). Their Baseball-Reference WAR and JAWS numbers are in the forties and high thirties, respectively, and no one else outside the Hall (or named Rivera) comes particularly close.

Fingers brings the same huge innings (1,701.1 IP) as the other two guys, but doesn't have nearly the bWAR or JAWS chops as Gossage or Wilhelm. He's actually 26th among "relievers" by JAWS, behind guys like John Hiller and Kent Tekulve, despite all those innings. I'm not certain he belongs in the Hall for any reason other than his mustache, but here he is.

Bruce Sutter is another guy who maybe doesn't come close to Wilhelm, Gossage, or Rivera in terms of overall resume. He was very, very good, but he only rates 17th among relievers in JAWS (22.7), and possesses a bWAR of only 24.6, matching his JAWS rank exactly. That's not to say Sutter wasn't good, or even great -- he was -- but he's very much like Dan Quisenberry or Joe Nathan in those two measures.


Am I wrong on Wagner? Feel free to disagree.

Any others I'm overlooking?

The active save leaders, http://www.baseball-reference.com/leade ... tive.shtml

If we look at the leaders, Nathan's not even worth discussing, though if he'd begun his closer career at 23 not 28, he'd have a real shot, but he's virtually retired at this point, still eyeing a comeback, but I don't think there's a lot of innings left on his TJ repaired 41 year old arm.

Pape and K-Rod are the 2 who are closest but both need several more good seasons. K-Rod, surprisingly since he began pitching 3 years earlier, is a year younger. He also spent about 2 seasons as a set-up guy and missed 2 years worth of save opportunities and he still currently has 401 and with a few more good seasons, could end up over 500.

Pape, at 35, if he remains a good closer till he's 40-41, maybe, but he's a longshot.

Youngsters like Kimbral, Chapman or Jansen are 28, but if they stay good for the next 6-7 years or so, both guys should have a shot.

K-Rod as a dark horse, I know he's a long shot, but just maybe, if he comfortably tops 500 saves I think he has to be considered. 3-4 more seasons and he could do it.

Was Lee Smith robbed? (mostly from what I've read, people think he's not a hall of famer

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 Post subject: Re: Relief Pitchers in the Hall
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Practically A Wilpon

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Not a big fan of relievers in the Hall.

If I had to pick one on the ballot though, I'd take Wagner over Hoffman and Smith.

Mo should definitely get in. K-Rod and Papelbon should not.


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 Post subject: Re: Relief Pitchers in the Hall
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:10 am 
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Legend of NYFS

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Mariano.

The End.

I would also kick out all the other ones who are already in.


8)

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