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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:10 pm 
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What gets me most upset is not learning from past mistakes or other teams mistakes. Wasn't one of the knocks on the Pats last week the fact they took their sweet little ol time when they were down by two scores last week? So what do the Jets do? Take their sweet little ol time down by two scores. They should have been in the hurry up with 8 minutes to play, not wait till the last 4 or 5. The lack of urgency killed the Pats last week and killed the Jets this week.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Nutsacjac wrote:

The problem is Ryan loves Schotty and pretty much gives him carte blanche to run the offense(IIRC, Ryan basically tells Brian whether he wants to run or pass, but he's very hands off). If you don't like Schottenheimer, by proxy you have a problem with Ryan because he's ultimately responsible for the whole team.

They're not going to fire Schottenheimer coming off two AFCCG appearances with a very young, inexperienced QB and quite frankly I think it would be foolhardy to do so.


This argument makes no sense.

On one hand, you're saying Rex Ryan has nothing to do with the offensive playcalling and is completely hands-off there. One the other hand, you're telling me that if I don't want Schottenheimer here, by proxy, I don't want Ryan here. Huh? Aren't you admitting they are two separate functions? This would work if a Pats fan wanted to fire Billy O'Brien...but how is indicting Schottenheimer's playcalling indicting Rex in any way? Because he has too much trust in his people? Fine. But I don't think you see too many head coaches (at least good ones, who stick around for a while) coming out and bashing their coordinators. Maybe Todd Haley. And I said you don't have to bring someone in to clash with Rex...but you need a better playcaller and scripter and in-game adjuster. Maybe Schotty's playbook is a thing of beauty, but if he can't translate it into the games, what good is that?

And refusing to upgrade because the team has had success despite areas of failure is a horrible attitude to have. I'm not even saying the offense has to be looked at as an area of failure, but should the Jets not change up the personnel on the defensive front 7 because they are "coming off two AFCCG appearances?" Should they not get a better kicker because they made it this far with Folk, so who cares if he stinks? Thats called complacency, and in the NFL, it leads to failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Steve The Original wrote:
What gets me most upset is not learning from past mistakes or other teams mistakes. Wasn't one of the knocks on the Pats last week the fact they took their sweet little ol time when they were down by two scores last week? So what do the Jets do? Take their sweet little ol time down by two scores. They should have been in the hurry up with 8 minutes to play, not wait till the last 4 or 5. The lack of urgency killed the Pats last week and killed the Jets this week.


If you're talking about the Cotchery TD drive, I really didn't have a problem with it.

Trying to quick-strike the Steelers D at that point leads to Sanchez getting killed or INTs. You can't just throw your QB back in the shotgun and send everyone on "Go" routes against these guys. Making it so obvious leads to them bringing the house and we know when they come, they hit you. Hard.

At that point in the game, a comeback was unlikely. It was late, they were down 2 scores, against a fantastic defense. They made it a game to the last whistle. They needed the defense to make a stop and they would've had a chance to drive for the win. Thats about as good as you can hope for if you're down 12 with under 8 minutes to play in Pittsburgh. Trying to quick strike there could've ended the game 5 minutes earlier...you're hoping and praying rather than playing the game and putting yourself into a position to have a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:25 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
And I said you don't have to bring someone in to clash with Rex...but you need a better playcaller and scripter and in-game adjuster. Maybe Schotty's playbook is a thing of beauty, but if he can't translate it into the games, what good is that?

And refusing to upgrade because the team has had success despite areas of failure is a horrible attitude to have. I'm not even saying the offense has to be looked at as an area of failure, but should the Jets not change up the personnel on the defensive front 7 because they are "coming off two AFCCG appearances?" Should they not get a better kicker because they made it this far with Folk, so who cares if he stinks? Thats called complacency, and in the NFL, it leads to failure.


Sanchez likes Schottenheimer.
Ryan likes Schottenheimer.
Tannenbaum likes Schottenheimer.
The Jets have made the AFCCG two years in a row.

Schottenheimer isn't going anywhere. Screaming for his head doesn't change these facts. He did have a bad game last night but the reason the Jets lost last night was the fact that Ryan inexplicably did not have his team ready to play coming out of the locker room.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:35 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Steve The Original wrote:
What gets me most upset is not learning from past mistakes or other teams mistakes. Wasn't one of the knocks on the Pats last week the fact they took their sweet little ol time when they were down by two scores last week? So what do the Jets do? Take their sweet little ol time down by two scores. They should have been in the hurry up with 8 minutes to play, not wait till the last 4 or 5. The lack of urgency killed the Pats last week and killed the Jets this week.


If you're talking about the Cotchery TD drive, I really didn't have a problem with it.

Trying to quick-strike the Steelers D at that point leads to Sanchez getting killed or INTs. You can't just throw your QB back in the shotgun and send everyone on "Go" routes against these guys. Making it so obvious leads to them bringing the house and we know when they come, they hit you. Hard.

At that point in the game, a comeback was unlikely. It was late, they were down 2 scores, against a fantastic defense. They made it a game to the last whistle. They needed the defense to make a stop and they would've had a chance to drive for the win. Thats about as good as you can hope for if you're down 12 with under 8 minutes to play in Pittsburgh. Trying to quick strike there could've ended the game 5 minutes earlier...you're hoping and praying rather than playing the game and putting yourself into a position to have a chance.


No, I'm talking about the drive that ended up with a failed 1st and goal. They took their sweet ass ol time.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Nutsacjac wrote:

Sanchez likes Schottenheimer.
Ryan likes Schottenheimer.
Tannenbaum likes Schottenheimer.
The Jets have made the AFCCG two years in a row.



Again, find me a QB who openly questions his offensive coordinator. Find me a good head coach who throws his assistants under the bus. These statements are meaningless, because you or I would have no idea if they are or aren't true. And it wouldn't change the fact that if a guy isn't good at what he does, and if there is a suitable replacement available, you make a change.

Thats a separate argument, but of the points you're bringing up (publicly, nobody says they don't like him, and the overall team has been successful) do nothing to argue for the retention of Schottenheimer. Its a weak position.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:08 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Again, find me a QB who openly questions his offensive coordinator. Find me a good head coach who throws his assistants under the bus. These statements are meaningless, because you or I would have no idea if they are or aren't true. And it wouldn't change the fact that if a guy isn't good at what he does, and if there is a suitable replacement available, you make a change.

Thats a separate argument, but of the points you're bringing up (publicly, nobody says they don't like him, and the overall team has been successful) do nothing to argue for the retention of Schottenheimer. Its a weak position.


I am going on what is said publically and the fact that Tannenbaum carried over Schottenheimer from the Mangini regime.

It's not hard to tell that Sanchez and Ryan really like Schotty; hell, just take a look at Hard Knocks.

I see no reason to think they don't like him or think he's doing a bad job. Regardless, it's a pipe dream to think they're firing him because they're not.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Rex was asked point blank in his PC today whether Schotty will be back next year; he said yes, absolutely.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Quote:
Coach Rex Ryan confirmed Monday that Brian Schottenheimer "absolutely" will be brought back as offensive coordinator in 2011.
Schottenheimer came under fire for goal-line play calls in Sunday's AFC title game loss to the Steelers, as well as Santonio Holmes' minimal role. During the regular season, however, his offense ranked 11th in the league in yards and 13th in points. Until Mark Sanchez puts it all together, Ryan may continue to lean on Schottenheimer to feature the ground game. Behind the scenes, it's believed the two have butted heads about offensive philosophy.


Rotoworld

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Anyone who quotes profits of a baseball club is missing the point. Under generally accepted accounting principles, I can turn a $4 million profit into a $2 million loss, and I can get every national accounting firm to agree with me. - Paul Beeston, CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays


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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Given the fact that Rex categorically endorsed Schottenheimer today, this is really a moot point.

But Kevin Gilbride has been considered one of the top offensive minds in the NFL for more than 20 years and I think his playcalling is a lot more questionable than Schottenheimer's.

So much has to do with the execution of the players and you really have to know more than is apparent from a naked-eye view on TV to understand if a play failed because it was a bad call or if it was poorly executed.

That's not to say Schottenheimer is beyond criticism, but a lot of the time we can't really tell what was supposed to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Oh yeah - outside of the 2 catches on the quick strike TD drive to open the 3rd, did Holmes touch the ball ONCE?

And yeah - the TD drive was fine, even if they ran pointlessly up the middle for 3 yards and took 18 seconds off the clock about 3 or 4 times.

That series down at the goal line was one of the worst playcalling series I've ever seen (and I freely admit I'm not a HUGE football fan, much more fair weather).

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 Post subject: Re: Fire the OC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:14 am 
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And I hate to go all Chris Berman on sluger, cause he's a cool dude, but 2nd and goal from the 1 down 14 and you run two cutesy passes? One of which is almost an interception? When you have a back who (I think) earlier on that drive steamrolled uh... #25 on the Steelers on a 3rd and 18 for 16 yards?

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