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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:02 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
He has SOME personnel background, but minimal. He's a business-side/cap guy, which means Rex will still run the personnel side of things with Woody's stamp of approval - thats the issue with him.

If we needed a cap guy who could be in the room on scouting decisions, he'd be a slam dunk.


I think that you are putting too much stock into his current position. In addition to his own background as a talent evaluator, I imagine that he will bring some new scouts in with him. He has been around the game for a long time.

More important are his philosophies and how they differ from Tannenbaum's. Remember, the Jets were able to bring in talent during Tannenbaum's tenure (with both Mangini and Rex); what ultimately got him fired was his willingness to over-invest in too few players and the resulting lack of depth. Take the draft for example; I don't believe that Tannenbaum did poorly on a pick-by-pick basis. However, his misses stand out more due to trading away so many picks (also missing on the risk/reward guys like Gholston and Sanchez seems to overshadow a lot of what he accomplished - Revis, Mangold, Brick, Wilkerson, etc.). Also, despite being a "capologist" he left us with a top heavy team which will give the new GM very little flexibility in 2013 (Sanchez, Holmes, the LB situation). Seattle fans speak highly of management, so hopefully he will emulate them.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:15 am 
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Legend of NYFS

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Browns make a very interesting GM hire this AM, with Michael Lombardi who most recently was on NFL Network.

Jets are the last team standing. Good news is they no longer have ANY competition for ANYONE's services in the market.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:43 am 
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Lombardi has had connections to the original Browns franchise and many people are surprised it took him to get back this long in the game.

Idzik seems like the latest choice but I am not really too cynical about him.

Interesting that Gamble appeared to be a finalist for the Browns position. Seems he has backed off two situations where he had no control over the hires.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:16 pm 
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From Rotoworld
Quote:
Jets hired former Seahawks VP of Football Administration John Idzik as general manager.
Although Idzik dabbled in personnel evaluation under John Schneider and Pete Carroll in Seattle, his primary strength was salary-cap management, similar to old Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum. The Idzik hire means coach Rex Ryan should have almost complete control over the Jets' roster, which will be viewed in many circles as a risky proposition. Ryan is a football coach, not a scout. And Idzik isn't a scout, either. The Jets' roster has deteriorated so suddenly over the past 3-4 seasons because they've struggled mightily with player evaluation.


Nice. Hawks draft well and are set up nicely within the cap. I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Its a risky move.

He's a nice name but he's a bad fit for seemingly what we need. Couple of recent scouting trips and the lowest rungs of coaching doesn't make this guy a seasoned personnel man - he's a cap guy.

Make no mistake - our cap is a mess as much as the personnel is. But I think the bad personnel causes the cap problems, not the other way around. Mike T was considered the best cap in the game and look where it got us, when you think that Calvin Pace is an elite pass rusher (and pay him like one), trust your coach to tell you his old inside backer has plenty of gas left in the tank, put all your eggs in a college QB that his coach didn't even believe in (under the old rookie contract rules), etc.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Marty Mornhinweg expected to be the OC.

This is one I'm a little bit more bullish on.

He was a terrible HC (don't gotta worry about him bolting) and it always seemed like Philly's personnel outpaced its production a bit, but your talking about a much more attack heavy offensive philosophy. So much so that he got criticized for the lack of "ground and pound" he didn't run with Shady McCoy.

A bit odd though that the GM comes in and doesn't pick the coach or either coordinator.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:17 pm 
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The more I read about Idzik, the better I like the hire.

The Jets already had a "personnel guy" as GM in Terry Bradway and he wasn't too good at building an organization. It's much more important to put together an organization that operates effectively in key areas.

To me, the GM should have an eye for playing talent, but it's more important to hire and lead scouts who have that ability. I read on one site that he is set to bring in people in the scouting area who are highly respected within the league.

This is a football lifer who happens to be an honors graduate of Dartmouth (Sandy parallel?) and is good with the cap and contracts.

He grew up around the game with a father who was a respected coach and then he played in college at Dartmouth. He also coached a bit and and he's been with several different organizations (Tampa Bay, Arizona and Seattle) that have historically had their ups and downs, but seem to have been at or near their best when he worked for them.

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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Per the beat guys:

- front office will not be overhauled. Staff behind Idzik will largely remain in tact.

- Rex retains his say in personnel from the Tannenbaum days. GM has final say but is collaborative.

- Woody has discretion over Rex's job, not GM.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about candidate John Idzik and his qualifications for the Jets’ general manager job so lets try and break down what we know as best as we can…

Obviously what stands out about Idzik is his most recent venture with the Seattle Seahawks. Idzik joined Seattle in 2007 and has served as their vice president of football administration. His daily responsibilities include managing the team’s salary cap and personnel transactions, taking part in negotiations, and partaking in player evaluations. Per Field Gulls, SB Nation’s blog dedicated to covering the Seahawks, Albert Breer stated that his function as a talent evaluator was indeed true and that Seattle had been utilizing him in that role more and more recently.

Prior his gig in Seattle, Idzik was tabbed as the Arizona Cardinals’ senior director of football operations, a position that is highlighted by evaluating talent…just ask Tom Telesco who left the same position with the Colts and was a part of Indianapolis’ drafts since 1998 in varying capacities. As you know by now, the Cardinals went on their Super Bowl run in Idzik’s final year with the team. However, before his Arizona days, he spent 11 seasons in Tampa Bay. He started out as a Pro Personnel assistant before being promoted as the director of football administration in 1996. He served as assistant general manager for three years which coincided with the Buccaneers’ Super Bowl bid.



*Found the bolded interesting (below)

Quote:
Yes, it is true, Idzik does have experience with the salary cap however, he didn’t fall off the wagon yesterday and is well-versed in personnel matters. He also is likely to bring with him a valuable asset to the Jets in Jack Mula who will help construct a game plan for the franchise’s future. The significance of this name is undoubtedly lost on many of you as it was me until I found out that Mula was one of the main architects that crafted the Patriots teams that won three Super Bowls as Chris Gross of Turn On The Jets astutely pointed out here, here and here.

Do we expect all of the Jets’ problems to be cured all at once? No. But based on Idzik’s background, should he be hired, you’re not getting another “cap guy” or an “idiot” or “Mike Tannenbaum 2.0″. In fact, I’d wager to say he’s the furthest thing from Trader Mike. Unlike Idzik, Tannenbaum didn’t play football, he didn’t coach at any level, and aside from his early post-college years as an intern where he worked in the personnel departments of the Saints and Browns, he was always in an executive role dealing with the salary cap and player contracts. So forgive me if the comparisons between the two don’t hold weight in my eyes but I’m seeing two completely different people with vastly different backgrounds.


**Note: Where the bolded states "here, here and here" they are links to pieces written by Gross

http://allnyj.com/2013/01/getting-to-kn ... um=twitter


I do think the cap situation is being overblown though. As of now their situation is the worst in the league but with several expected cuts they'll be around 8 mil under and there really isn't any long contract killers (Sanchez/Holmes 1 more guaranteed each).

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Not sure if it is good or bad, but acccording to reports, Rex was not in on the formal interviews.

He had an opportunity to meet candidates and talk to them, but wasn't in the room when Woody and company conducted the interviews.

As I said, that could raise issues over the fact that no "football men" were in the formal interviews on the Jets side. But it also gives lie to the idea that Rex would be able to pick his own "boss".

The question in my mind is Woody going to have some kind of Dolan-Isiah thing with Rex? Or is Woody simply a fan of Rex who wants to show his support, but will make the hard decision if it has to be made.

Personally, I think when you change course, you clear out both the GM and coaching staff. But I can also see merit to the argument that Rex has done enough good things to support the idea that he is capable of coaching a winning team.

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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:19 pm 
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What do you guys think about potentially bringing in Matt Flynn to quarterback our new OC's West Coast offense? I read some rumbling about this on rotoworld yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: New York Jets 2012 Season Long Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Chico wrote:
Not sure if it is good or bad, but acccording to reports, Rex was not in on the formal interviews.

He had an opportunity to meet candidates and talk to them, but wasn't in the room when Woody and company conducted the interviews.

As I said, that could raise issues over the fact that no "football men" were in the formal interviews on the Jets side. But it also gives lie to the idea that Rex would be able to pick his own "boss".
The question in my mind is Woody going to have some kind of Dolan-Isiah thing with Rex? Or is Woody simply a fan of Rex who wants to show his support, but will make the hard decision if it has to be made.

Personally, I think when you change course, you clear out both the GM and coaching staff. But I can also see merit to the argument that Rex has done enough good things to support the idea that he is capable of coaching a winning team.


IMO, a lot of that is media driven. I do think they need to be called out on many things but some of it just doesn't add up.

Case in point, the idea that Tom Gamble walked away from the job offer. Rich Cimini would like you to believe that, but when asked about it in his chat (Cimini is hated by many Jet fans for this reason. He likes to play the doomsday Jet prognostigator rather then just giving the facts)-

Michael (Lindenhurst, New York)
What happened to Tom Gamble? I think he is the best candidate they interviewed for what the Jets need. Do you sense he didn't want the job?

Rich Cimini
(2:24 PM)
I didn't get that sense. I don't think he had a good interview.


I agree that it's not the greatest idea for a franchise to hire a new GM while stringing along the head coach. But I don't know how saying that the HC will have input turns into "Rex is hiring the GM".

It's also interesting that football people applaud the hire while the NY media harps on his experience managing the cap as though he's a carbon copy of Tanny.

Researching and reading the opinions of the hire as opposed to OUTSIDE the NFL (IE the NY media) and you'll get a different viewpoint.



Colin CowherdVerified‏@ESPN_Colin
Jets to hire John Idzik as GM. I'm told rising star. Sharp. Driven. Just because someone is not on national radar.....


This player agent just RAVES about him and gets upset with the way the NY media is portraying the hire during some twitter chatter on the hiring-

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
“@AlbertBreer: SEA had Idzik involved in every part of operation. hit about 10 schools in the fall to scout.” @Steiny31

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@avventualy24 @Steiny31 tough for a guy when he's hated already before he steps off the plane. But MOST around the NFL think it'll be good

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
Turnover in the NFL is welcome for some agents. 1 thing some agents preach is "relationships" with specific people. New agents must learn

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@Ganggreen345 @Steiny31 we wish. Lol. But he's very fair. And most importantly. He returns calls, emails, engages in conversations.

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@Ganggreen345 @Steiny31 and most importantly. HE cares about the well being of his players. Agents respect that. As long as your player is

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@Ganggreen345 @Steiny31 doing his job, john will always be honest with them and you.

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
RT @XAMSports Love the #Jets GM hire...John Idzik is a great fit in my opinion @Steiny31

Jake Steinberg‏@Steiny31
@agentlinton NY media ripping him for only being a cap guy and not a personnel guy..can u plz put that to rest..Idzik can handle personnel!

Joe Caporoso‏@TurnOnTheJets
@Steiny31 @agentlinton Important because Tannenbaum had terrible relationships with many agents

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@NYNJSports @Steiny31 great relationship with agents as well. That will be a pretty big plus as well

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@Steiny31 if noone was ripping anyone, then it wouldn't be media. No sense in getting up in arms over it. Sure John isn't worried about it

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
yes@Gibberman10 You like Idzik?

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@avventualy24 @steiny31 most people don't know the role he played in helping to build that team in seattle. Those who know, know...

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@avventualy24 @steiny31 can't believe everything you read regarding a guy. There's a lot the public doesn't know, but assume

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@avventualy24 he knows more than what people think. He helped build one of the deepest teams in the league. And they still have 10 picks

Greg Linton‏@agentlinton
@avventualy24@steiny31 name the top 4 gm in the league, and study their background. They went through the same initially



Some other interesting tweets-

Brian Costello ‏@BrianCoz
Just heard this interesting nugget. Bill Polian was in the room for some of the Jets GM interviews. #nyj

Manish Mehta ‏ @ MMehtaNYDN New Jets GM John Idzik will report directly to Woody Johnson. He'll also have final say on all personnel matters. # nyj


Manish Mehta ‏@MMehtaNYDN
Someone who knows new #NYJ general manager John Idzik just told me: "He builds things. This is a great day for the Jets."


Albert Breer ‏ @ AlbertBreer One other thing on Jets ... Doesn't sound like the GM will have Vick or any other player foisted on him. Brass aware of circus perception.


Brian Costello ‏ @ BrianCoz Idzik very popular around the league. Hearing a lot of praise for him. I keep hearing how smart he is.


Quote:

Mornhinweg's arrival will mark a philosophical shift for the Jets' offense and head coach Rex Ryan from a "ground-and-pound" style to a more passing-oriented offense, and while Tannenbaum had adopted a more collaborative approach on player-personnel matters, this person also said that Idzik will have final say on all roster decisions. Ryan did sit in on Idzik's second interview with the Jets, this person said, but only to exchange ideas and not as an indication that Ryan had any influence on Johnson's choice as GM


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ondStories


But, Shhhh... don't tell the NY media and especially Francessa/NY Sports radio what is being said inside NFL quarters.

_________________
MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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